Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolution program
Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu> Wed, 28 August 2019 00:38 UTC
Return-Path: <hgs10@columbia.edu>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053DA120824 for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:38:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.199
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fC1yxLPXMzc7 for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from outprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu (outprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.72.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45367120026 for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hazelnut (hazelnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.213.250]) by outprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7S0Yh65020620 for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:38:35 -0400
Received: from hazelnut (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hazelnut (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356259D for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:38:35 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sendprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu (sendprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.72.13]) by hazelnut (Postfix) with ESMTP id E396C80 for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:38:33 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-f199.google.com (mail-qk1-f199.google.com [209.85.222.199]) by sendprodmail01.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7S0cXM9014147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:38:33 -0400
Received: by mail-qk1-f199.google.com with SMTP id x28so827698qki.21 for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gd1WVeMfJBr81DxmKm5cjzEP2o2XazvSWUcRJYMVCcc=; b=dyj4oiH9WdSHYIoQqjEHTStMTIhJDuV68gic0Z3b22QEdH6LcibRSvdeLRs4/ZPzxn HmsV/TN3PtqTDNhidEe2yjv4eLaQ2ZaO1KXmkbGDDnhFm00OAP7xIKJGZyue8daoKsD3 VOqOg1iwA5bFwnlXuqC7brRkv5AcnMZCTj66BVghFooXXjvqsIGoqq7BqpuGSb4hDtj+ rJMPHTTq0XQJG8MtHiHTNKqIyV1LV5UTAPxpFcHO8VGh/MnkxIE402AMevcVL2X2s94D Lez+V/Ia6c6ydpLYIoxhB4slb4INCexU9vUyEe2gC8ogqZa5QEEtDvoAMxuGKcw0r6AX Wl2A==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWKM1utu421SIV8KYVIEQGHnPJUCyw+/Z/7JinGJQzel2FwOGV7 YKOPuubHHvHKtZkcPXq22VkDl0SyNBVXwJixKQUSNFtDBktEIarji4N54CRCH+Q3o0SdDghloA7 mUtufqYQmvlvAqcl8Rs5faj5XVmLv58CJtKy8BvhUbu1CJbbG
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:ea8d:: with SMTP id d13mr1086055qvp.222.1566952712960; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyPpqlB8QQQMKeVYj7pf5Q7wpA1ESXlfVyTpLFEwsdWWlXWuEYDD0KtCNnmaQRM15zJ9r6gwp0IdJg1koC47rA=
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:ea8d:: with SMTP id d13mr1086042qvp.222.1566952712624; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <B5A0F4E0-D437-4DF9-9918-C35627A8CADC@trammell.ch> <d5009253-4884-9f1f-66e7-1159e85524b9@si6networks.com> <770822F2-688F-44EA-A6A1-7E7EDBFAA989@trammell.ch> <cece8133-6b69-a677-52fc-a7fb4c7d5136@si6networks.com> <64E3A59C-8709-41E0-B74F-C036E4481AE4@apple.com> <f3645e11-d823-4308-3f51-6f2da5e33180@si6networks.com> <87imqnvhui.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <CA+9kkMDWk3kmYOZ8Zz+BjUZG0+sshQJjR9pYt-NgL8umqpMtWQ@mail.gmail.com> <eb2bc35f-ea95-69b9-5163-baded0c47478@si6networks.com> <20190825164839.GA77144@verdi> <715FF08E-9DD1-4052-BE1D-3C3AA614B560@strayalpha.com> <CACgrgBZrfaQTHneNV7JSSq6YB98-qUa7FnAgGFffX9ztyc2oAg@mail.gmail.com> <A0939AF0-2377-427C-8009-1AEE34EF05FA@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <A0939AF0-2377-427C-8009-1AEE34EF05FA@strayalpha.com>
From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:38:06 -0400
Message-ID: <CACgrgBbgtSRarTK1ectq=Mq6oRuyJRrRV_rF9nD7suPgudJD5Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
Cc: John Leslie <john@jlc.net>, architecture-discuss@iab.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d0f1b00591229bc7"
X-No-Spam-Score: Local
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 128.59.72.13
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/Uc4NwSOfMlFr9IRDAm3caobdEnw>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolution program
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 00:38:38 -0000
> > > That hasn’t been the case for SONET, ATM, or Ethernet services. > Those services were purchases as telecommunication services by professionals, including other carriers, who wanted as much flexibility as possible to run random higher-layer protocols (IPX! Netbios! various versions of IP) on these networks. Each of these purchasers had significant bargaining power. They are sold by the thousands, at best, not to home users by the millions. Plus, they are closed, private networks, with no addressing issues (i.e., no NATs) and relatively simple delivery models. Thus, I don't think they can teach us much. Henning
- [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolution … Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Tommy Pauly
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Chris Morrow
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Ted Hardie
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Tommy Pauly
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Chris Morrow
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… John Leslie
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Christian Huitema
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… John Leslie
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… John Leslie
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Fernando Gont
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… John Leslie
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Joe Touch
- Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolut… Tony Li