Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience
Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Mon, 30 December 2019 06:36 UTC
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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 13:36:52 +0700
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience
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Dear architecture-discuss (Brian, Toerless, Stephenond Others), Readings on this threads inspire me these points below (as I am making such a struggle to learn on Internet :-)) * A framing (if we may also say similarly, using Derrida's term, a parergon ?): Why should be...? Reasonings, approaches, and perspectives: (arrangements of) realities Values of & meanings of, the fittest: so that things should and may be survived... Thus, there should be: interpretations and evaluations by such languages (from the conceptual to the practical)... * The framing to apply on Internet and its conditions: Why should and may be survived? --Internet and its "conditions" (resilliency, robustness)? We need of such reasonings (contexts, approaches and perspectives of interpretations and evaluations) to come to understandings on (realities of) Internet and its conditions (among others is resilliency and robustness). Interpretations and evaluations socially and technically... Here we concern with lingual translations between the social and the technical... used in composing such architectural programmes on Internet... For example: if we accepted meanings and values of Internet conceptually as such that it has been part of half of the world populations' everyday life -'words made in a report by an International governmental organization-- then technically we may say " Internet continues to grow and diversify, with a realistic prospect of billions of nodes connected...". Then, architectural programmes on Internet may about "local requirements, behaviours, and semantics...". (B. Carpenter and B. Liu's "Limited Domain and Internet Protocols") Regards, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Senin, 30 Desember 2019, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> menulis: > On 30-Dec-19 12:40, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 08:38:09AM +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >> However, resiliency doesn't seem to me to require a discussion of > values. It's a very clear technical requirement on its own. Surviving human > error, equipment failure, natural disasters, political interference, and > acts of war might each generate different resiliency considerations. > > > > Germany seems to think that its good for resilience and cost reduction > > to be able to source oil from all places it can, including russia > (nordstream 2). > > The USA claims values against that and is hence fighting it. > > > > To make a more technical _networking_ resilience argument: In design of > > resilent network paths, one key ask is to have non-single point of > failure > > in forwarding/control-plane code-paths, aka: diverse router vendors > paths. > > But there are also government regulations based on "values" requiring > > network paths not to pass through specific vendors equipment or certain > countries. > > > > Aka: You are grasphing for straws if you try to declare something to be > > beyond being abused as an argument about values. And remember that > > (plastic) straws too are outlawed in certain countries because of values. > > True. But that doesn't prevent us doing the analysis of resilience issues > without making political assumptions. If it comes out that the best form > of resilient routing would be some form of Byzantine routing with no fixed > paths between end points, that would be a valid technical conclusion. > (Whether that particular approach has been seriously analyzed since about > 1962, I don't know.) If we could design a resilient unambiguous namespace > without a central authority, that would also be a valid technical > conclusion > that might prove troubling to ICANN. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss >
- [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet r… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Marc Blanchet
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Simon Leinen
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Marc Blanchet
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Yaakov Stein
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Andrew Campling
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Andrew Campling
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Randy Bush
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Andrew Campling
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… tony.li
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Andrew Campling
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Marc Blanchet
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Melinda Shore
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Scott Brim
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Yaakov Stein
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… John C Klensin
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… John Levine
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… S Moonesamy
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Christian
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet r… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Christian
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Lucy Lynch
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Dan York
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Dan York
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Jared Mauch
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… John C Klensin
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet r… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [arch-d] my summary of resilience thread (Was: po… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Intern… Jared Mauch