Re: [arch-d] On the (f)utility of prescriptive architecture

Ted Hardie <> Mon, 23 March 2020 17:06 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0BA3A0BDC for <>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:06:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4YuWwrl5ZB_Z for <>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:06:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4255C3A0A29 for <>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:06:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id l23so4059986otf.3 for <>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:06:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kQ3jUTwrXAdwbRtsp9Z8Gfzeq7Jh4IVtPQ1iDA++/Qw=; b=cbiD6Mz2Pix7raZHEN/YuZ4fngw9oklHriIABcIhEfRYWfvQsPFXR6r1NqZ4b3+5uo H83Sal99/o0+JPosw39RWvA9zpByU5msWWmN/jh1TrajvO7QUXFgC59mwgRliZBnqLfu WrpXLvwvgVKDUHj0NbOWGsjxIkSV6n5/PbtEW346L7+V5Qqwxo6dwKwsGA4s1gXuGcFa w2aNPtAewug1qfNXPjxmKDMfAWhAM8H7yt/0OQqu9SFkVApKy8w/tGFKFnF3Q6FyRKEt aL0qRrNTc6eHf02j0DkCJrHqy7Gsarum8kbQcZUqOYcc1tZcJ0dnOEXJ93U4s/sLGSAf WAMw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kQ3jUTwrXAdwbRtsp9Z8Gfzeq7Jh4IVtPQ1iDA++/Qw=; b=ADiSZMT9Em2yA7EEtLwQs8KR5nUe9IDtugXahgzv1755S3f3YAWPfkfMqgt6PRd6JI ftNlFJ3oB4GsGhdr0inVgbTYIbaHO2i0EoJn7U57aQcYjUBTuTOG7ZXI2Xn0lqZPEYNj FLvoP3PJbtzyiHpfkUuMubwdgxDSsjfD0uJgDCyTktLXAqugZjNZO/X2oCet3+UKMpQi +89sNHi9ksSFfLp7zYQLR3iJO5aPpYV30v4dzfF36K0nkNBihgZRxxFleJinY3Sb26ms fmpjdWMQTL3uT32lnrYjEkT7v5/41KyYeexHz/Q6UBs82XyfoSgW+HYgrHNbCsJiLB1J PJQw==
X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ1helevDqIW+hKTvPs1Go813bXchT9zuNag15Qp2uRCiw+zgcKh WCGWsd1Rt0tNsB6qR9ZBISa4ppb+47cBdRkp5Vo=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vvM76sQ+4s03rDegF3SNSxAgY85EAmpOk8MTMlEK4+31nO+Ia84gRfp/Ukm2WLv6ubqM4BuScUCD3UYWGlFtXA=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6358:: with SMTP id y24mr19668160otk.49.1584983203359; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <> <>
In-Reply-To: <>
From: Ted Hardie <>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:06:18 -0700
Message-ID: <>
To: Stewart Bryant <>
Cc: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" <>, Toerless Eckert <>, "" <>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cfae6905a188a8ce"
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] On the (f)utility of prescriptive architecture
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:06:46 -0000

Hi Stewart,

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 2:20 AM Stewart Bryant <>

> Maybe I have missed it, but I have not seen any IAB work with the
> community on the de facto fundamental restructuring of the Internet into a
> series of walled gardens with best effort global traffic on a path to
> become a minority interest.
You might want to take a look at the background material for the DEDR
workshop: .  It
points to some of the previous work of the IAB in defining successful
protocols and successful protocol transitions, then tackles the question of
"What happens when the environment the protocol was designed for
changes?".  Consolidation was a big part of both the input documents and
that discussion, and Geoff and others focused on what that means for
modern networks.  model-t and chirp are both discussions that emerged from


Ted Hardie