Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolution program

"Brian Trammell (IETF)" <ietf@trammell.ch> Fri, 23 August 2019 10:19 UTC

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From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:19:32 +0200
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To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] FYI: closure of the IAB Stack Evolution program
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hi Fernando,

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 12:15, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Brian,
> 
> Thanks for the note! In-line...
> 
> On 23/8/19 12:07, Brian Trammell (IETF) wrote:
>> Greetings, all,
>> 
>> During the IETF 105 meeting in Montreal, the IAB decided to close the Stack Evolution program in its present form. 
>> 
>> The initial concept behind the IP Stack Evolution program was to investigate how changes to the whole stack, especially to the transport layer, could be deployed in the big-I Internet, and explore the impact of encryption at the transport layer on evolution of the stack. At the time the program started in 2014, there was not much work yet in and around the IETF in this space. 
>> 
>> That has changed. QUIC has demonstrated that it is possible to deploy a new transport protocol at scale, and the QUIC WG has nearly finished an IETF standard version of that protocol. 
> 
> I'm certainly not much of a QUIC expert, but... isn't QUIC tunneled over
> UDP?
> 
> If so, then deployment of QUIC doesn't prove that it's possible to
> deploy new transport protocols in the big-I Internet. Actually, the
> decission to make QUIC run over UDP would seem to me quite the opposite:
> that you cannot deploy a new transport prootocol natively, and thus need
> to tunnel it on something that actually is known to work (TCP or UDP).

This is a well known discussion rabbithole, but.. no, QUIC is not tunneled over UDP, it uses a UDP header as an encapsulation but is a distinct transport protocol on its own. You're right that we can't deploy new *headers* in the Internet because of middleboxes, but a key insight behind QUIC is that you can run a new protocol over old headers.

I would argue that thinking of UDP as a transport protocol is itself a mistake; it is a UNIX sockets model friendly way to allow applications to access an IP datagram service in a multiuser environment. But I think I'm in the minority there.

Cheers,

Brian

> Thanks,
> -- 
> Fernando Gont
> SI6 Networks
> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
> 
> 
> 
>