Re: [arch-d] Proposed IAB program: Evolvability, Deployability, & Maintainability.

S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Tue, 07 July 2020 19:01 UTC

Return-Path: <sm@elandsys.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B714B3A0BEE for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 12:01:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.697
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GmwcJmkZ22oe for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 12:01:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.elandsys.com (mx.elandsys.com [162.213.2.210]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB553A0A0B for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([102.115.204.255]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 067J19Ab022069 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 7 Jul 2020 12:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1594148482; x=1594234882; i=@elandsys.com; bh=/90ZpJ7hOq+yXGEtEpIlJL7S+lvqETOXo0lsbnn6Vz4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=13RqFItfFS1jJ8xIqIR31UZmmV2u/yFSrn7l3BEGzaa0k//wHGZNqPNuQMlYGwDHG X0NYMRcJvooystQfFBKgVzKx8+zsCkL+PF2/jsN43OFGIYHTFE4lXVfEtdoRymhhvi 1j+NFzQQ6xWu0wPBXjoLaCcy6KF4eBhYHyplJcU4=
Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20200707113659.0adc3eb8@elandnews.com>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 11:59:22 -0700
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, architecture-discuss@iab.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
In-Reply-To: <97106DE6-5F23-4490-9271-8E397EEEAEC7@apple.com>
References: <087DBE75-7103-4D82-8878-59F1E53592C8@apple.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200706152350.0ace2bd8@elandnews.com> <97106DE6-5F23-4490-9271-8E397EEEAEC7@apple.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/riZ_gKoJbLs8a3QQa7Gzg2ek1Y4>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] Proposed IAB program: Evolvability, Deployability, & Maintainability.
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 19:01:49 -0000

Hi Tommy,

Thanks for the response.  I'll comment below.

At 09:41 AM 07-07-2020, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>Thanks for expressing your concern. I want to assure you that this 
>program is not trying to replicate the role of the IESG or any 
>working group, but rather to help coordinate conversations with the 
>IESG, working groups, IETF community, and external communities. The 
>specific focus of these discussions is to look at how we can achieve 
>the architectural goals of an evolvable and maintainable protocol stack.

That may not be the intent of the IAB.  However, that is what will 
happen as you (used in general terms) get in working group details.

>The problems we are trying to address are indeed architectural: can 
>we avoid or mitigate the ossification of protocols? Can we promote 
>the reuse and extension of IETF protocols and avoid duplication and 
>non-interoperable proprietary solutions?

Ok.

>However, the solution-space involves improving how protocols are 
>defined, how their extension points and allocation spaces are 
>defined, and how working groups communicate and engage with 
>implementer communities.

If you ask about that during a review (unrelated to the proposed 
program) you'll most likely get the "it's the consensus" or some 
other answer which does not explain the how.

The implementers, with some exceptions, do not have much of a say in 
deployment.

>The proposed program would include IESG members, tools team members, 
>WG chairs, implementers, etc. Those would be the bodies that 
>actually enact changes. The role of the IAB here is to organize the 
>discussions and highlight the impact on architecture.

Ok.

>Here are some references to highlight how this organizational role 
>is indeed within the charter and role of the IAB:
>
>   "[The IAB] is also expected to play a role in assuring that
>    the people responsible for evolving the Internet and its technology
>    are aware of the essential elements of the Internet architecture."
>(<https://www.iab.org/about/charter/>https://www.iab.org/about/charter/)
>
>"The IAB also helps connect different fields of expertise when this 
>is needed to understand the full situation affecting the evolution 
>of the Internet."
>(<https://www.iab.org/about/iab-overview/>https://www.iab.org/about/iab-overview/)

Who are the people responsible for evolving the Internet?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy