Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Errata #5933 for RFC8200)

Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> Fri, 28 February 2020 01:05 UTC

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In-Reply-To: <caee3e5c-f6f6-2cc8-420f-1c8e4f0afb99@si6networks.com>
From: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 17:05:09 -0800
Message-ID: <CAOW+2dt2kePGMTcqXd=Res57EzJegE2V+zwFphw1D6xd8kz8ew@mail.gmail.com>
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>, Internet Area <int-area@ietf.org>, architecture-discuss@iab.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/sITtUuoJjp8RuCOdndZQSgpJ048>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Errata #5933 for RFC8200)
Precedence: list

Fernando said:

"May I ask what is the point of bothering publishing specs if they are
going to be violated at will *within the same organization that
published the specs*."

[BA] The point of publishing specifications is to make them available for
evaluation and potential implementation.  It's a contribution to the
"marketplace of ideas".  As noted in RFC 5218, the imprimatur (e.g. the
standards status or stream) has little influence on acceptance.  Some
widely deployed specifications are Standards Track, others are
Informational. In practice, factors such as the availability of reference
implementations have more influence on deployment.

This levels the playing field - a single person (or small group) can design
a new protocol and put out an open source implementation, with a very good
chance that the work will be evaluated and succeed/fail on its own merits,
regardless of what "the experts" might think of it.

So if you take issue with a particular approach, offer up your own
alternative, or articulate the reasons why it is a bad idea.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 2:58 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:

> On 27/2/20 19:43, Bernard Aboba wrote:
> > Fernando --
> >
> > "the proponents have argued that "we have implemented it,
> > and the industry wants it" -- as if we just have to rubberstamp what
> > they have done."
> >
> > [BA] The IETF has no enforcement authority, so that vendors have the
> > ability to ship products implementing IETF standards in whole or in part
> > - or not at all.
>
> Agreed. The problem here is that it's an *IETF* working group
> rubber-stamping what a vendor did. *That* is the problem.
>
> May I ask what is the point of bothering publishing specs if they are
> going to be violated at will *within the same organization that
> published the specs*.
>
>
> As noted by Jinmei here
> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/XZ_D_cfPNNzXpi4_ZbuTidMTo4k/>
>
> , I believe not only are we just rubber-stamping stuff, but also I
> believe that our processes are being circumvented.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Fernando Gont
> SI6 Networks
> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
>
>
>
>
>

[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Mark Andrews
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Christian Huitema
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Dino Farinacci
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Andrew Alston
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Andrew Alston
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra