Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Errata #5933 for RFC8200)

Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Fri, 28 February 2020 04:36 UTC

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From: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMm+LwjYeSTro_TJujtRPDfVKtVMg7JbDL6A5V3Tj447c2E7nA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:36:29 -0800
Cc: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>, architecture-discuss@iab.org, Internet Area <int-area@ietf.org>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-Id: <74763844-FA56-43DC-981E-E366E2C24758@strayalpha.com>
References: <876c9105-3da4-e614-2db0-bea025b54663@si6networks.com> <7749f91f-03f1-cc14-bae8-5fe68c88879f@si6networks.com> <CALx6S36wN7VEi_rxLC1ETcTvkGaPhs20KhQrGWAGGTrCL5OT+g@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+Lwg+4xMv=EKLfvmZMCgrQz31+38Fv0bYKeJ0fTB5vbXiaw@mail.gmail.com> <8d3e7b714666db00e0c05a2e06959da6@strayalpha.com> <CAMm+LwjYeSTro_TJujtRPDfVKtVMg7JbDL6A5V3Tj447c2E7nA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/ufGdFCtEGPbf3jjHpa6x--9-yb8>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture? (Fwd: Errata #5933 for RFC8200)
Precedence: list


> On Feb 27, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
> 
>> IP end to end does not mean the IP address is constant end to end. It never has meant that and never will.
>  
> Actually, that's the only thing it ever meant and always will. When addresses change, *by definition*, the*ends* change (and yes, that's what NATs do - they create end-to-end CONTENT transfer over separate end-to-end Internets).
> 
> By whose definition? Not by mine.

I’d start with RFCs 791 and 1122, but there’s also the pseudo header in RFC 793, to be very specific.

> TCP and TLS give me a reliable end-to-end stream. The fact that the IP address is exposed is merely an unfortunate defect in the legacy APIs. 
> 
> As the application layer designer, I am the customer here. I do not care about the IP address.

Hmmm. By what value do you call  TCP endpoint?

You must have magic sockets that don’t actually refer to IP addresses.

Joe

[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Mark Andrews
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Christian Huitema
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Dino Farinacci
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Bernard Aboba
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Fernando Gont
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Robert Raszuk
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Tom Herbert
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architect… Andrew Alston
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Joseph Touch
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Andrew Alston
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
Re: [arch-d] [Int-area] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P… Fernando Gont
[arch-d] Is IPv6 End-to-End? R.I.P. Architecture?… Guntur Wiseno Putra