Re: [arch-d] Updates on IAB mailing lists

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Wed, 29 April 2020 15:10 UTC

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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:10:46 -0700
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Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, architecture-discuss@ietf.org
To: Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] Updates on IAB mailing lists
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Brian,

> On Apr 20, 2020, at 2:10 PM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 21-Apr-20 07:34, Mary Barnes wrote:
>> Just to be clear, my point is that architecture-discuss was not intended to be an IAB discussion list any more than IETF discussion list is scoped to IESG discussion.
> 
> Not quite accurate - see below. Especially "This is an IAB-sponsored activity…".

I agree.

I think it is fine and correct for the Internet Architecture Board (IAB) to have a public mailing list to allow discussion of the Internet Architecture.   That is, I would think, why we have the IAB.

Bob


> 
>   Brian
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: New architecture-discuss mailing list forum
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:00:54 -0400
> From: Leslie Daigle <leslie@thinkingcat.com>
> To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
> CC: iab@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org
> 
> A new mailing list has been created to provide a forum for general
> discussion of Internet architectural issues:
> 
>   architecture-discuss@ietf.org
>   https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss
> 
> The architecture-discuss list serves as a technical discussion forum for
> all members of the IETF community that are interested in larger
> architectural issues. It is meant to be an open discussion forum for
> all long and/or wide range architectural concerns related to the
> Internet Architecture. In particular, it may be used to discuss and
> bring forth different points of view on controversial architectural
> questions. Discussions that drill down and dwell on specifics of
> individual protocols or technologies are to be discouraged, redirected
> to appropriate other fora, or re-cast to discussions of broader
> implications for Internet architecture.
> 
> This is an IAB-sponsored activity, but IAB members will be
> participating as individuals and not representatives of the IAB. As
> such, postings to list must not be considered as IAB opinion, and must
> not be quoted as such. Indeed, it is expected that IAB members will
> disagree with each other, at least occasionally, just like the any
> part of this community.  :-)  Note that questions asking for an official
> IAB opinion, issues requiring immediate action (by anyone), issues
> related to the way the IETF operates, do not belong on this list.
> Issues pertaining to IAB business should still be directed to
> iab@iab.org .
> 
> 
> Leslie Daigle,
> for the IAB.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> [Some examples of potential topics for discussion, provided by Pekka Nikkander]
> 
> 1. Mobility and multi-homing
> 
> The IETF currently hosts a bunch of working groups focusing on  various aspects
> of mobility and multi homing.  At the Internet Area,  there are five WGs and a
> couple of almost-WGs charted for standards  track work: MIP4, MIP6, NEMO, SHIM6,
> MONAMI6, and NETLMM.  In  addition to those, there are experimental approaches,
> such as HIP,  and optimisations, such as MIPSHOP and MOBOPTS.  Outside of the
> Internet area, MOBIKE is focusing on mobility and multi-homing for  IPsec and
> SCTP and DCCP folks have had their mobility and multi- homing discussions.  The
> wider research community is full of various  proposals, including overlay
> approaches (such as i3) and underlay  approaches (such as using MPLS tunnels to
> implement host routes).
> 
> Given this multitude of work and even partially overlapping standards  track
> solutions, what would be the right way or right ways forward?   Could we design
> a way towards converging solutions?  How do we ensure  robustness of solutions
> if we attempt to deploy multiple solutions at  the same time; for example, SHIM6
> + Mobile IPv6 + SHIM6?  How do more  unified solutions, like using CGA-based
> mobility with SHIM6 contrast  to this?  What about using HIP with routable IP
> addresses instead of  Host Identity Tags (HITs) as Upper Layer Identifiers?
> Going a little  bit furthermore, what are the architectural impacts of doing
> mobility  and multi-homing at the IP layer vs. other layers?
> 
> 2. IP virtualisation
> 
> In the recent discussion w.r.t. tunnelling at the Internet Area list,  a clear
> need for virtualisation came up.  While tunnelling with clear
> implementation-level virtualisation boundaries is clearly one viable  way to
> implement virtual IP networks on the top of the "real" IP  infrastructure, this
> issue seems to warrant some deeper digging.   Tunnelling has well known
> drawbacks, and we may want to ask what  would be the alternatives.  In order to
> understand alternatives, if  any, we need to understand better the requirements
> behind IP  virtualisation, or what people *really* want to achieve with it.  Is
> it merely ease of configuration, or reduced operational costs?  If  so, could
> there be other architectural ways of achieving the same  ease or perhaps even
> larger capital and operational savings?  Some  people have been promoting adding
> "realms" as a first class service  to the base IP.  Would that provide an
> alternative solution?
> 
> While the mobility and multi-homing discussion seems to more circle  around
> evaluating existing proposals and trying to navigate towards  more unified
> solutions, here we seem to lack genuine alternatives and  deep understanding of
> the real problem domain.
> 
> 3. Overall open architectural issues
> 
> Some IAB members have been collecting open architectural issues for a  while,
> with the intention of bringing up an up to date collection of  information at a
> later date, probably in a form of a WikiPedia-like  web site.  This work is
> going on, and we'd like to get as much  information as possible from the wider
> community.  Hence, suggestions  on what are the more pressing longer-term open
> issues are very  welcome.  To given an idea of the current issues so far
> identified,  here is a partial list.  The list doesn't say much without
> explanation, but it may give an idea of the type of issues we are  looking at.
> 
> End-to-end connectivity
> =======================
> 
> The original value of the Internet, the ability to connect to any  host with
> any protocol, has eroded away during the last decade. While  it is impossible to
> get back to the original mode of operation,  largely due to security reasons,
> some form of better-than-today end- to-end connectivity would be very valuable.
> 
> o Living with NATs, filters, and firewalls
> o Introducing identity realms or domains
> o Evolving the application interface (API)
> 
> End-user experience
> ===================
> o Transparent security
> o Zero Configuration and Service Discovery
> 
> Balancing Accessibility, Security, and Privacy
> ==============================================
> o System for plausible sender identity for received packets
> o Secure self-configuration
> o Integrating security across the stack
> o Dealing with bad traffic
> 
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