Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 5322
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Sun, 18 April 2021 00:29 UTC
Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8573A396B; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.919
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZpyVffRNDxec; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:29:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE5BE3A392C; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:29:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dc27d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.194.125]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FN9nC4tpvzyms; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:29:35 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <73A9FC4B-47DE-437F-9C90-BC0995B3E3C0@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:29:35 +0200
Cc: "General Area Review Team (gen-art@ietf.org)" <art@ietf.org>, IETF SAAG <saag@ietf.org>
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 640398574.988788-a963a53b54d06aaf88aa8c5f99bfef7c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <B38A981D-A79E-4D31-B29C-A09C456E3CC6@tzi.org>
References: <CAAyEnSMBdXCA0EvgR79P_1gi15pAPfeyu_HgGqgMjWxRP8sxKg@mail.gmail.com> <C7B5DB45-F0A1-491C-AD4E-91F67C8C182E@cisco.com> <B3D690C21848AF07EC92577F@PSB> <CAMm+LwiNGDMF9muA0p3uYALSiPFNEpZ5vrkyXRnUzqdBL02Jjw@mail.gmail.com> <73A9FC4B-47DE-437F-9C90-BC0995B3E3C0@gmail.com>
To: "Mark Baushke (ietf)" <mbaushke@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/art/4m6DDsNdysNnwcMICjb2ONXhL8k>
Subject: Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 5322
X-BeenThere: art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/art>, <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/art/>
List-Post: <mailto:art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art>, <mailto:art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 00:29:44 -0000
On 2021-04-14, at 22:53, Mark Baushke (ietf) <mbaushke@gmail.com> wrote: > > Twelve digits after the decimal point expresses pico seconds which is just silly and unrealistic at present, but micro seconds seem plausible in many contexts. If new standards are forward looking, then the expression should possibly be considered. > (I do not see a need to consider femto, atto, zepto, or yacto seconds at the present time.) I don’t know why this discussion is continuing on the SAAG list, but let me add one factoid anyway: The CBOR tag defined in draft-bormann-cbor-time-tag supports picosecond resolution [1] because the Haskell date/time libraries need that (which in turn probably just try to be one step ahead of UNIX nanosecond resolution). (The CBOR tag also has femtosecond and attosecond resolution, because these are still cheap with 64-bit integers. Zeptoseconds, yoctoseconds, and anything else down to and beyond Planck units can be added later based on bignums.) A light-nanosecond is ~ 300 mm (~ a foot), a light-picosecond still is ~ 0.3 mm (~ 12 thou), which is well beyond the tolerances to which e.g. connectors can be manufactured, so while these are not easy to achieve as date-time precisions, as durations (time differences) they are in wide use (as are femtoseconds and even attoseconds). RFC 3339 has no problem with decimal fractions at all, so there is no need for invention as long as we talk about text strings for date-times. Grüße, Carsten [1]: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-bormann-cbor-time-tag-04.html#name-keys-3-6-9-12-15-18
- [art] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 5322 Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Eliot Lear (elear)
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Tim Bray
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Nico Williams
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Nico Williams
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Julian Reschke
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Nico Williams
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… John C Klensin
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Randy Bush
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Ned Freed
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Michael Douglass
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Dave Crocker
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Stian Soiland-Reyes
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Alan DeKok
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Tony Finch
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… heather flanagan
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… John Levine
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… tom petch
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Steve Allen
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… heather flanagan
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… tom petch
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Stian Soiland-Reyes
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Steve Allen
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Metapolymath Majordomo
- Re: [art] [saag] Date formats: RFC3339 vs. RFC 53… Yakov Shafranovich