Re: [Asrg] DNSBL and IPv6

Paul Smith <paul@pscs.co.uk> Fri, 26 October 2012 14:20 UTC

Return-Path: <prvs=064688B184=paul@pscs.co.uk>
X-Original-To: asrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: asrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB06021F85AF for <asrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g0TfyqRi65cp for <asrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.pscs.co.uk (mail.pscs.co.uk [188.65.177.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E4121F85A7 for <asrg@irtf.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lmail.pscs.co.uk ([82.68.5.206]) by mail.pscs.co.uk ([188.65.177.237] running VPOP3) with ESMTP; Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:22:13 +0100
Received: from [192.168.66.100] ([192.168.66.100]) by lmail.pscs.co.uk ([192.168.66.70] running VPOP3) with ESMTP; Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:08:58 +0100
Message-ID: <508A997A.3040900@pscs.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:08:58 +0100
From: Paul Smith <paul@pscs.co.uk>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/15.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg@irtf.org>
References: <20121025024859.3176.qmail@joyce.lan> <A6AF6224-421E-4483-834B-A1F658BEC7C6@blighty.com> <50891887.50103@pscs.co.uk> <0D79787962F6AE4B84B2CC41FC957D0B0D22655F@abn-exch1b.green.sophos> <50894EBB.5090907@bofhland.org> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1210261525060.28593@uplift.swm.pp.se> <CALgnk9reSog3AkC04knaogNm6CPZ70gQ1Oxf5tD45U8nHPjqSw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALgnk9reSog3AkC04knaogNm6CPZ70gQ1Oxf5tD45U8nHPjqSw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Authenticated-Sender: paul
X-Server: VPOP3 Enterprise V6.0 - Registered
X-Organisation: Paul Smith Computer Services
Cc: Matthias Leisi <matthias@leisi.net>
Subject: Re: [Asrg] DNSBL and IPv6
X-BeenThere: asrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg@irtf.org>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.irtf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:20:17 -0000

On 26/10/2012 14:32, Matthias Leisi wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
>
>> I believe it's going to be common enough that legitimate MTAs will move
>> around within their /64 quite frequently (privacy extensions that are
> Using a /64 as a default seems reasonable, but a new standard for
> DNSxL lookups should provide some flexibility, either for a full list
> ("default prefix length = /56") or on a more granular level (using
> John L.'s original proposal, or some other useful method).
>

The problem with a /64 for black/white listing is that it's not quite 
the same as an IPv4 /32. So, at the moment we may have a /25 or /26 
block, but we'd still have a single IPv6 /64

We may run 50 customer dedicated  mail servers on our /64 block, and 
ideally we'd want each to have their own reputation. So, we couldn't do 
this if DNSBL/WL filtering is on a /64 block. With our current IPv4 /26 
each customer's server would have it's own reputation on an IPv4 DNSBL/WL.

Obviously we couldn't say what level of granularity we'd want, or 
spammers would just say 'we want /128 granularity', to overload everything.

We could (theoretically) get a /48 block, but that would be a waste (I 
know there are LOTS of /48's out there, but still), since we wouldn't 
need it for routing, just for making it work with /64 based 
black/whitelisting.

I can't think of a good answer to this, but our case is a use case which 
isn't going to be that unusual.



-

Paul Smith Computer Services
Tel: 01484 855800
Vat No: GB 685 6987 53