Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM addresses
"Jon Kyme" <jrk@merseymail.com> Mon, 19 May 2003 08:22 UTC
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In-Reply-To: <6419342993.20030518213514@brandenburg.com>
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM addresses
To: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@brandenburg.com>
From: Jon Kyme <jrk@merseymail.com>
Cc: ASRG <asrg@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:19:33 +0100
>>> Can you show instances in which they say yes to messages they cannot >deliver? > > >VS> I was skeptical of the report that Yahoo defers no-such-user responses >VS> until the DATA command, and so I made the obvious `telnet ... 25` >test. >VS> I tried a perfectly valid message to an address that was very unlikely >VS> to exist. The Rcpt_To command was answered with at 250 response. It >VS> was not until the end of the DATA command that I got a 5yz. > > >Folks, the email operations world has increasingly moved away from >real-time processing of SMTP data. > >Processing causes delays and SMTP client daemons are impatient. The >very, very wide range of network delays has compunded the effect of >these processing delays, constantly causing problematic timeouts. > >So the tendency, these days, is to just say 'yes' in the protocol, take >the addresses and content, store them in a queue, and do any real work >after the connection closes. > The tendency may have been to move away from "real-time processing of SMTP data", however with the increasing spam burden I wouldn't be surprised to see the pendulum swing back. Only by making checks at the border can traffic be rejected as near source as possible. It's interesting that some MTAs nowadays offer hooks for highly configurable checking during SMTP transaction (I'm thinking of the local_scan interface in exim 4). The economics of handling spam (and spam bounces) can make this very attractive even for high traffic operations. It seems sensible that a system should not accept messages that won't be deliverable. The whole "accept anything / bounce it later" model is not IMHO the wave of the future, rather expending CPU at the boundary MTA (and providing the infrastructure to make checks) conserves resources later on. Of course there are issues with implementation - I seem to remember hotmail having problems with distributing their user database to their outward facing MTAs in the past. However, we're all familiar with the sight of systems failing under the demands of handling *bounces* (to non-existent senders?) following massive spam runs (dictionary attacks) against them. -- _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Scott Nelson
- [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM add… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Fred Bacon
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Scott Nelson
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Scott Nelson
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Eric Dean
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Tom Thomson
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Daniel Feenberg
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Richard Rognlie
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Clayton, Nik [IT]
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Clayton, Nik [IT]
- RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Clayton, Nik [IT]
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of M… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Tom Thomson
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… mathew
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… wayne
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Markus Stumpf
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Chris Lewis