Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: request for review for a non FUSSP proposal)
Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> Fri, 26 June 2009 16:02 UTC
Return-Path: <vesely@tana.it>
X-Original-To: asrg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: asrg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2951A3A6BBF for <asrg@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.147
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.227, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, SARE_SUB_RAND_LETTRS4=0.799]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZesedgzdbsQ5 for <asrg@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:02:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2933A697E for <asrg@irtf.org>; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 ale@tana.it, TLS: TLS1.0, 256bits, RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with esmtp; Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:02:11 +0200 id 00000000005DC030.000000004A44F103.00003065
Message-ID: <4A44F103.7010608@tana.it>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:02:11 +0200
From: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg@irtf.org>
References: <4A43B696.2000106@cybernothing.org> <4A449A7C.6070106@tana.it> <20090626100736.GA29159@gsp.org> <4A44A90A.9090503@tana.it> <20090626140320.B0C8C24300@panix5.panix.com>
In-Reply-To: <20090626140320.B0C8C24300@panix5.panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: request for review for a non FUSSP proposal)
X-BeenThere: asrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg@irtf.org>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.irtf.org/mail-archive/web/asrg>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:02:06 -0000
Seth wrote: >> UBE is still better than "the class of Messages which the Recipient >> wishes to prevent from ever being presented with." In particular, it >> allows to determine a message's spaminess *on sending*. > > Definitionally, yes. Effectively, no. There's no way for anyone > other than the sender (e.g. the sender's ISP) to determine that I > asked someone I met at a party last week to send me some information > by email. (Sure, they could ask me; but I _didn't_ solicit that.) Likewise, a recipient's ESP has no way to determine what the recipient _wishes_. Even asking may result in ambiguous answers, possibly affected by unexpected unconscious evocations. In addition, to surmise that a recipient's wishes can be partitioned into classes according to some standard is beyond any residual trace of objectivity. When interpreted operatively, it calls for inconsistent behavior -which indeed is what we currently have. Even if we may be skeptical about the effectiveness of meatspace laws for limiting spam, we should give them credit for defining and describing a number of useful terms. Privacy laws are aimed at protecting people against undiscriminated usage of collected personally identifiable information, a.k.a. personal data. For example, European privacy directives' definitions[1] don't use the term "spam", but pin unauthorized usage of email addresses. Technically, UBE is covered in section 6.2 of rfc5321, loosening up on delivering or bouncing. According to privacy criteria, it should be covered in section 3.9, which is where the lists of addresses come into play. Is that the difference between coping and fixing? [1] http://www.cdt.org/privacy/eudirective/EU_Directive_.html#HD_NM_28
- [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: request … J.D. Falk
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Douglas Otis
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Seth
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Seth
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Seth
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… der Mouse
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… der Mouse
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria is missing Ou… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Seth
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria is missing Ou… Douglas Otis
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… J.D. Falk
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Douglas Otis
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Claudio Telmon
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Claudio Telmon
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Michael Thomas
- Re: [Asrg] No, we're not going to define spam John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] No, we're not going to define spam Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Claudio Telmon
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria is missing Ou… Douglas Otis
- Re: [Asrg] really, we're not going to define spam… John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria is missing Ou… Danny Angus
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Danny Angus
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Steve Atkins
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Seth
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Claudio Telmon
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Claudio Telmon
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria is missing Ou… Douglas Otis
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria (was Re: requ… Danny Angus
- Re: [Asrg] draft-irtf-asrg-criteria is missing Ou… Danny Angus