Re: [Asrg] seeking comments on new RMX article

"Alan DeKok" <aland@freeradius.org> Wed, 07 May 2003 02:53 UTC

Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA18384 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h4732Gt22543 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:02:16 -0400
Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4732D822540 for <asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:02:13 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA18375; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DF5B-0004cq-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 22:55:02 -0400
Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DF5B-0004cn-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 22:55:01 -0400
Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4730C822446; Tue, 6 May 2003 23:00:12 -0400
Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h472xr822384 for <asrg@optimus.ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:59:53 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA18340 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 May 2003 22:50:37 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DF2v-0004cB-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 22:52:41 -0400
Received: from giles.striker.ottawa.on.ca ([192.139.46.36] helo=mail.nitros9.org ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DF2v-0004c8-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 22:52:41 -0400
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=giles.striker.ottawa.on.ca ident=aland) by mail.nitros9.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 19DFEe-0007IM-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 23:04:48 -0400
From: Alan DeKok <aland@freeradius.org>
To: asrg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] seeking comments on new RMX article
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 May 2003 17:14:14 MDT." <200305062314.h46NEEh2013725@calcite.rhyolite.com>
Message-Id: <E19DFEe-0007IM-00@mail.nitros9.org>
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/asrg/>
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 23:04:48 -0400

Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com> wrote:
> The common mode that you would outlaw is where people send from one
> IP address with an unrelated envelope Mail_From value.

  No one has used the word "outlaw".  The recipient MTA would decide
what to do with an SMTP session when the originator lies to it.
Maybe the IETF ends up with an RFC saying such lies MUST NOT occur,
but who really pays attention to RFC requirements?

> Another common case involves people traveling.  If you plug your laptop
> into the network of a hotel or one of your consulting clients, you
> might prefer to use an envelope and From header address at your home
> systems instead of room1234@losangeles.merriot.com or guest@example.com.

  Despite Dave Crockers assertions to the contrary, other solutions
for roaming users exist, than lying in SMTP transactions.  Even his
comments against webmail "not scaling" are trivially and obviously
wrong: Hotmail.  It has tens of millions, and dare I say, approaching
100 million users.

  That existing solution address ALL of the concerns with roaming
users requiring email access (but NOT necessarily SMTP), and with
scalability to 100's of millions of users.  The fact that you,
personally, probably hate web mail is your issue, and doesn't negate
the underlying truth of the argument for changing the behaviour of
roaming users.

  Alan DeKok.
_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg