RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM addresses
Kee Hinckley <nazgul@somewhere.com> Tue, 20 May 2003 02:48 UTC
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To: Eric Dean <eric@purespeed.com>
From: Kee Hinckley <nazgul@somewhere.com>
Subject: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM addresses
Cc: Alan DeKok <aland@freeradius.org>, asrg@ietf.org
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Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:46:24 -0400
At 4:37 PM -0400 5/19/03, Eric Dean wrote: > > >> > For example, if 90% of spam is forged, then RMX, C/R, and >> > authentication schemes could do a lot against spam (modulo their >> > other problems). > >It's not a large step to estimate that 90% of spam is forged. >1) However, much of that spam can be filtered using simple sender domain >checks. Many spammers use bogus domains and maybe 5-10% of spam is dropped >accordingly. >2) The next value is to do a HELO hostname check..about 10-20% is dropped as >well. However, there are casualities for very large companies...such as >bellsouth and verizon whereby I have to punch holes in my filters. >3) Then I could be more aggressive and apply a reverse-dns check on the >initiating source IP. Doing so is also effective, however, all DSL and >carrier Dial networks in-addr their IP pools...yet many mail admins don't. >I have aout another 5-10% of my spam come from unresolved IPs..but instantly >the phones light up..cost me money..and I'm out of business. The tough-love >approach is suicidal stupidity. >4) Then OK, so now we go with RBL, to identify the pools..that'll >work..costs non-trivial money..but it works for that flavor of spam..maybe >5%. Well, actually I collected some of this data as well. But without corresponding data on non-spam, it's not very useful. Certainly each of the steps you outline includes an increased number of false positives. There were 7376 unique senders. 4298 had some "problem" with the HELO or DNS information. 10 No A record for the HELO domain 702 The hostname for the HELO doesn't resolve 1330 Unqualified domain in the HELO 2030 Sender domain does not match the HELO 76 DNS Failed or timed out 1000 No DNS A data (not sure how this differs from the first) 8 Bad DNS Q Data Format (?) 101 Pipelined (Pipelining was detected by spotting cases where an error was returned which should have terminated the transaction, but they kept sending commands, up to and including the content of the message.) Obviously those all overlapped a good deal. Your immediate reaction might be to make sure that the sender domain matches the HELO. After all, it would nail half the spam right there. But then again, it would also block most of the mail coming from my domain and many others. My mail server always uses the primary domain name in the HELO, no matter which domain it sends for. That's probably true of most servers. -- Kee Hinckley http://www.messagefire.com/ Junk-Free Email Filtering http://commons.somewhere.com/buzz/ Writings on Technology and Society I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's. _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Scott Nelson
- [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM add… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Fred Bacon
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Scott Nelson
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Scott Nelson
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Alan DeKok
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Barry Shein
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric Dean
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Eric Dean
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Tom Thomson
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Daniel Feenberg
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Michael Rubel
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Richard Rognlie
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Clayton, Nik [IT]
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- Re: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Jon Kyme
- RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Clayton, Nik [IT]
- RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL … Clayton, Nik [IT]
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: RE: RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of M… Jon Kyme
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Jon Kyme
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Tom Thomson
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… mathew
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Eric D. Williams
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Barry Shein
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… wayne
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Yakov Shafranovich
- RE: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Kee Hinckley
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Markus Stumpf
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Chris Lewis