Re: *Possible Spam *RE: [Asrg] criteria for spam V2

Just to add my two cents.  This is startting to sound like one of my 
classes on philosophy - the instructor asked us to describe a chair. 
Obviously you know one when you see it but finding the essence is almost 
impossible.

Spam is commercial speech delivered via email. Does a subscription email 
list fall into this category - it may or may not - it depends on the 
purpose of the list. I want to know what person thinks CNN "event" 
notification isn't commercial speech - CNN is in business to make money. 
They may do it as a service but the purpose is to get you to view CNN 
when you want news. On the other hand a mail from EFF isn't commercial 
speech (though I bet the Supreme Court might think differently about it).

Like Danny I don't think "bulk" adds into the equation at all. About the 
only place it might enter is in the ISP that provides the bandwidth to 
the spammers.

Chuck Wegrzyn

Danny Angus wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Sorry to chip in but I can't help it, this discussion about the meaning of words is strangely compelling!
>Here goes my 2c..
>
>  
>
>>I don't think there needs to be a special definition for 'bulk' other than
>>it constitutes more than one, as most people should agree with.
>>    
>>
>
>IMHO Spam isn't defined by quantity but by whether or not you want or expect to receive it. However it has become a serious problem because of the quantity.
>
>Any definition of spam should not include any reference to quantity.
>Any definition of the problem would address the issues raised by spam being sent in quantity.
>If I sent a single mail offering any of you cheap viagra that would be a single mail, still spam and an annoyance, but not really a serious problem. It would cease to be spam if you now ask me to send it, as the process of your asking for it makes it appropriate for me to send it.
>
>As far as permission to send me mail, that is implicitly granted to many people, often restricted to on-topic content, but very often not explicitly solicited. A mail from this list (generally solicited) offering me cheap viagra is spam because it is off-topic.
>
>The only certainty is that spam is unwanted. This is a subjective decision by the recipient and would require different rules for everyone. However systems already exist which can learn sophisticated behaviour for filtering mail from group or individual accounts. 
>
>The process of defining the problem shouldn't be influenced by preconceptions about the possible answer, just because "unwanted" cannot be reduce to a series of general logical rules and encapsulated in an algorithm and used to solve our problem doesn't mean that "unwanted" is not the correct definition of spam.
>
>I would contend that rather than "Unsolicited Bulk Email" spam is quite simply "Unwanted email" where "unwanted" is mail with inappropriate content. By which definition unsolicited mail from friends or colleagues is not spam, but off topic mail being relayed by list servers to which you have subscribed is. 
>
>I don't think automation is relevant to the definition of spam, it may be a fact that spam is sent by automated systems but that doesn't define spam it merely exacerbates the problem of quantity by making it easier to deliver large quantities.
>
>Which brings me to the definition of quantity. If you only mean more than one why look for more impressive words when you can say "multiple"? "Multiple Unwanted Emails" as in "Our users' inboxes are filling with multiple unwanted emails" 
>
>If you mean a distinct single item containing a quantity of undifferentiated material say "bulk", a single mail with many recipients is a (singular) bulk mail, as in "Their servers were used to transmit bulk unwanted email".
>The phrase "Break-of-bulk point"[1] means the point (often at the interface between transports) at which a single bulk is split into its constituent parts, or sub-divided into smaller bulks for forward transport. 
>To my mind this is exactly the way in which a single email with multiple recipients is handled by SMTP, therefore bulk is a reasonable term to use for this kind of mail, but is more narrowly defined than "multiple" or "in bulk".
>
>If you mean many similar individual items being handled in quantity say "in bulk" as in: "Our servers have been indiscriminately relaying unwanted email in bulk".
>SMTP applies this idea where MTA's collect mail for a single destination together and transport it in bulk in a single session.
>
>A system sending a single mail addressed to many users on another system or many other systems is sending a bulk email.
>A system sending mail in quantity to users on another system or many other systems is sending email in bulk.
>A system sending many individual emails to many individual users on many other systems, but few are using the same transport at the same time, is sending multiple emails.
>
>Spam, from the POV of the sender is therefore "Multiple Unwanted Emails", and may at the same time also be "Bulk Unwanted Email" or "Unwanted Email in Bulk".
>
>>From the POV of thresholds you want to identify unwanted email being sent in bulk or individual bulks, to efficiently stop this mail before the bulk is broken, and the horse has bolted. 
>
>Spam from the POV of the individual recipient is unwanted but probably not "bulk" or "in bulk" by the time it arrives, generally you will only receive one copy of each mail, but it may be "multiple" if you receive many different unsolicited emails.
>
>Spam from the POV of intermediate transports could be all of bulk, in-bulk and multiple, and it would be hard for the intermediate transport to make a decision about wanted or unwanted by the recipient.
>
>d.
>
>[1]From geography, with heavy emphasis on the port connection ;-)...  (http://faculty.washington.edu/krumme/gloss/b.html) Break-of-bulk point: The location (usually a port) where a shipment is divided into parts. This usually (such as at the port) happens where a transfer of the shipment between transport modes occurs, such as between water and land at a port. 
>
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>

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