Re: [Asrg] Re: RMX Records

Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com> Tue, 04 March 2003 20:30 UTC

Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09366 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:30:30 -0500 (EST)
Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h24Kf7t11961 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:41:07 -0500
Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h24Kf7511958 for <asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:41:07 -0500
Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09324; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:29:59 -0500 (EST)
Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h24Ke3511888; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:40:03 -0500
Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h24Kd1511747 for <asrg@optimus.ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:39:01 -0500
Received: from calcite.rhyolite.com (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09222 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:27:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: (from vjs@localhost) by calcite.rhyolite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id h24KTr1K014669 for asrg@ietf.org env-from <vjs>; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:29:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com>
Message-Id: <200303042029.h24KTr1K014669@calcite.rhyolite.com>
To: asrg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Re: RMX Records
References: <20030304200027.A4371516@exeter.ac.uk>
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/asrg/>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:29:53 -0700

> From: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org>

> ...
> We know from long experience that laws, and after the fact enforcement
> of AUPs don't solve the problem.  That is the status quo.

No, the status quo involves lots of spam, but not from ISPs that have
strongly anti-spam AUPs and bother to really enforce them.  (A strong
anti-spam AUP is not one that says "send as much spam as you want for
a couple business days and then buy a new throw-away account."  One
that says "send spam and your financial knee-caps will be destroyed
by our lawyers" is strongly anti-spam.)

Demonstrations of how laws can work are the very successful recent
U.S. state laws against telemarking.


> ...
> So how will anyonymous users who want anonymity for privacy send mail
> in this world.

All of the authentication anti-spam efforts are based on the mistaken
notion that ISPs cannot know their own customers and exact a pound or
two of flesh for bad behavior.
That notion is incredibly silly if you've paid the least attention to
history.  For example, Ma Bell knew a lot less about its pay phone
customers, but nevertheless managed to keep "phone phreaking" under
better control than AT&T, MCI/UUnet, and Sprint have controlled their
own spammers.


Vernon Schryver    vjs@rhyolite.com
_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg