Re: [atoca] The future of atoca

Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> Mon, 30 July 2012 23:13 UTC

Return-Path: <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
X-Original-To: atoca@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: atoca@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906F611E80BA for <atoca@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:13:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P8J4dafUGA3C for <atoca@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:13:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 967F911E80AE for <atoca@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:13:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Jul 2012 23:13:11 -0000
Received: from dhcp-172b.meeting.ietf.org (EHLO dhcp-172b.meeting.ietf.org) [130.129.23.43] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 31 Jul 2012 01:13:11 +0200
X-Authenticated: #29516787
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18yn2FK0iky/yjUsX2T7b13MnckiCvPBBZHpxqtbh k98A4b3k/FH8vG
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
In-Reply-To: <E80BA454-F9F0-4EDE-994B-6FCCFA32427D@brianrosen.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:13:07 -0700
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <B6E3182C-1975-4D61-8AFB-FC91B9EC6D32@gmx.net>
References: <20120721131113.7B35C21F8646@ietfa.amsl.com> <B1C4C394-1E40-48FF-AE06-7B3871EEAA08@incident.com> <EDC0A1AE77C57744B664A310A0B23AE240AE89B6@FRMRSSXCHMBSC3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <AFDE3396-F0AC-41FD-886C-A8CC64009CD6@brianrosen.net> <266595E9-AB52-4269-BF78-C239DE25FC94@gmx.net> <E80BA454-F9F0-4EDE-994B-6FCCFA32427D@brianrosen.net>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084)
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Cc: atoca@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [atoca] The future of atoca
X-BeenThere: atoca@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion list for the IETF Authority-to-Citizen Alert \(atoca\) working group." <atoca.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/atoca>, <mailto:atoca-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/atoca>
List-Post: <mailto:atoca@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:atoca-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/atoca>, <mailto:atoca-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 23:13:14 -0000

As expressed in earlier ATOCA meetings I do not have the same view. 

In earlier meetings I was told that a subscribe - notify mechanism does not work for scalability reason and for that reason  
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rosen-sipping-cap-04 was rejected. 

Then, Richard defined a protocol that was supposed to describe an alternative:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-barnes-atoca-meta-02
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-barnes-atoca-delivery-01

A client has to register with the alerting server and most likely has to keep that subscription alive (with frequent retransmissions) to deal with NATs and firewalls. The client can indicate certain language features and other stuff in the request.

Then, it seems that unicast UDP messages are sent to those who have registered. 

Since CAP messages (with S/MIME based signatures) are fairly large (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-barnes-atoca-escape-00) a fragmentation is also added. 

On Jul 30, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Brian Rosen wrote:

> I don't agree.  I think a lot of what Richard has proposed works.  I think some things could be improved (a draft I will write).  
> 
> Brian
> 
> On Jul 30, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
> 
>> The problem I see is that we actually don't have a proposal that actually works.
>> Abstract discussions about potential solutions don't help to make progress. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>