Re: [Autoconf] aspects of multi-hop wireless communication

["Teco Boot" <[e-mail]>]

I tried to get rid of B->A and C->A and [NOT B->A].

Somewhat adjusted proposal, and using C and D and not the newly 
introduced R1 and R2:

 Second, there is no guarantee that two given routers within S can
 directly communicate with one another.  In other words, even though
 two routers C and D have symmetric communication with router A, there is
 no guarantee that C can hear packets from D, and there is likewise
 no guarantee that D can hear packets from C.  Thus, multi-hop ad
 hoc wireless communications may be "non-transitive".  Such non-
 transitivity is often observed on multi-hop ad hoc wireless networks,
 due to well-known properties of wireless communication.

Now C->A and A->D, but [NOT C->D] and also D->A and A->D, but [NOT D->C].
This characteristic is "non-transitive" and it is orthogonal with
"asymmetry".

Your terms "hidden terminal problem" and "non-broadcast" could be used 
as alternative terminology, but could have different meanings in 
different context.
  o  "hidden terminal problem" could have to do with collisions.
  o  "non-broadcast" does not apply here, because set S contains at 
     least 3 routers (B, C, D).
     Term "Semi-Broadcast" (I-D.ietf-autoconf-manetarch) was introduced,
     where S is subset of N. (N is all nodes in network N). I suggested
     not introducing new terms if they not needed.

Teco.

|-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
|Van: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] Namens Seung Yi
|Verzonden: maandag 22 december 2008 0:00
|Aan: Teco Boot
|CC: Charles E. Perkins; [e-mail]
|Onderwerp: Re: [Autoconf] aspects of multi-hop wireless communication
|
|I'm sorry but it sounds even more confusing to me.
|
|I'm not sure what to call it but it seems to describe the hidden
|terminal problem to me. Or, it's simply saying that the link (or
|whatever you want to call the "S") is of non-broadcast flavor because
|R1 and R2 can expect to hear each other only when the medium itself
|provides broadcast capability as in the Ethernet.
|
|- Seung
|
|On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 3:59 AM, Teco Boot <[e-mail]> wrote:
|> What about a small adjustment:
|>
|>   Second, there is no guarantee that two given routers within S can
|>   directly communicate with one another.  In other words, even though
|>   two routers R1 and R2 have symmetric communication with router A,
|there
|> is
|>   no guarantee that R1 can hear packets from R2, and there is likewise
|>   no guarantee that R2 can hear packets from R1.  Thus, multi-hop ad
|>   hoc wireless communications may be "non-transitive".  Such non-
|>   transitivity is often observed on multi-hop ad hoc wireless
|networks,
|>   due to well-known properties of wireless communication.
|>
|>
|> Now it says: "If R1->A and A->R2, there is no guarantee for R1->R2".
|> And the second behavior is not mixed up with the first one.
|>
|> Teco.
|>
|> |-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
|> |Van: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
|Namens
|> |Charles E. Perkins
|> |Verzonden: zondag 21 december 2008 2:10
|> |Aan: Seung Yi
|> |CC: [e-mail]
|> |Onderwerp: Re: [Autoconf] aspects of multi-hop wireless communication
|> |
|> |
|> |Hello Seung,
|> |
|> |Yes, of course you are right (embarrassment).
|> |
|> |What is a good name for the property under discussion?
|> |
|> |Regards,
|> |Charlie P.
|> |
|> |
|> |Seung Yi wrote:
|> |> Just one simple comment unrelated to the ongoing interesting
|> |discussion threads.
|> |>
|> |> Isn't the definition of transitivity "If A->B and B->C, then A->C"?
|> |> This document seems to use the term to mean "if A->B and A->C, then
|> |> B->C" in Section 2, second point.
|> |>
|> |> - Seung
|> |>
|> |> 2008/12/19 Emmanuel Baccelli <[e-mail]>:
|> |>
|> |>> Hi all,
|> |>> here's a draft that aims at describing important aspects of multi-
|hop
|> |>> wireless communication, as observed over the past decade of
|> |experience with
|> |>> such networks.
|> |>> The goal of this document is to identify a consensus about this
|> |topic, and
|> |>> then use this to move on quicker with the working group documents.
|> |>>
|> |>> Please review it, and provide feedback as soon as possible.
|> |>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baccelli-multi-hop-wireless-
|> |communication-00
|> |>>
|> |>> cheers
|> |>> Emmanuel
|> |>> _______________________________________________
|> |>> Autoconf mailing list
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|> |>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf
|> |>>
|> |>>
|> |>>
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