Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? Support only EUI-64interfaces?
Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es> Wed, 04 August 2010 13:31 UTC
Return-Path: <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>
X-Original-To: autoconf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: autoconf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EA93A6A62 for <autoconf@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EZB1Q9H8u2Zm for <autoconf@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp03.uc3m.es (smtp03.uc3m.es [163.117.176.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7003A67B3 for <autoconf@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 06:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-uc3m-safe: yes
Received: from [192.168.0.10] (82.158.121.254.dyn.user.ono.com [82.158.121.254]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp03.uc3m.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B58D8442EA; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 15:31:22 +0200 (CEST)
From: Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>
To: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4C571E93.7050007@gmail.com>
References: <EBE1B970-DADA-4643-BB75-4EDEDE41F758@inf-net.nl> <E1829B60731D1740BB7A0626B4FAF0A649E15C3F6E@XCH-NW-01V.nw.nos.boeing.com> <DB76629A-3BC9-46A0-BE4E-8E918E6AD63B@inf-net.nl> <AANLkTi=OQvQew9rRaHkH=62NjF6Qe-gcLz70VyiWogdK@mail.gmail.com> <4C571E93.7050007@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ZbenHQ7gYa1gIdyt+V/9"
Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 15:27:37 +0200
Message-ID: <1280928457.2889.40.camel@acorde.it.uc3m.es>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.2
X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.0.0.3116-6.0.0.1038-17548.007
Cc: autoconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? Support only EUI-64interfaces?
X-BeenThere: autoconf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es
List-Id: Ad-Hoc Network Autoconfiguration WG discussion list <autoconf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf>, <mailto:autoconf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/autoconf>
List-Post: <mailto:autoconf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:autoconf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf>, <mailto:autoconf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:31:02 -0000
Hi Alex, On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 21:37 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 02/08/2010 18:55, Ulrich Herberg a écrit : > > Teco, > > > > On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Teco Boot<teco@inf-net.nl> wrote: > >> Fred, > >> > >> Do you mean DHCP relay can be used on a node, that request an > >> address for itself? > > > > I have tried that a while ago. It works with some limitations (see > > below). > > > >> > >> I think it could work this way: 1) Node queries with link-local to > >> All_DHCP_Relay_Agents_and_Servers. 2a) Node acts as also relay and > >> queries with ULA (site-local) to All_DHCP_Servers. > > > > Do you mean that a node is DHCP client and relay in the same time? > > That is not possible according to RFC3315, which says (i) in section > > 15.13 "clients MUST discard any received Relay-forward messages" and > > (ii) section 15.3 "servers and relay agents MUST discard any > > received Advertise messages". > > Ah! This is seem to contradict something in MEXT context where > draft-ietf-mext-nemo-pd-05 proposes "This relay agent function is > co-located in the MR with the DHCPv6 client function (see Figure 2)." I don't think it contradicts it. As Fred mentioned in his e-mail: "client function would never see a Relay-forward, because that is generated by the relay function and sent to either the unicast address of a server or All-DHCP-Servers multicast." Thanks, Carlos > > > Also, the relay would need to have a direct unicast connection to the > > central node or use other relaying mechanisms such as SMF (as you > > mentioned below), because multiple relaying is not really feasible in > > DHCPv6 itself: Relaying uses encapsulation, so packets would be > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Clarification: yes, relaying implies encapsulation when Relay relays to > another Relay, but when Relay to Server - it's non-encapsualted. > > > encapsulated at every hop, quickly increasing overhead. And I also > > don't think that DHCP relaying allows duplicate packet detection. > > Duplicate packet detection? What is it for? > > Alex > > >> 2b) If node is provisioned with DHCP server unicast address, it > >> could use that instead of All_DHCP_Servers. > > > > Sure, that is possible if a unicast routing protocol is used. > > > >> I think this is in line with your RFC 5558. > >> > >> Drawback of 1: it can result in high number of relayed DHCP > >> packets, in case of many neighbors. > > > > True. > > > >> Another drawback of 1: there is a timeout delay when there is no > >> relay or server at one hop. > > > > But I guess this timeout can be set dynamically? > > > >> > >> For 2a: the network needs multicast support. Could be SMF. > > > > Yes, that could be a possibility. > > > > > >> > >> For both 2a and 2b: a temporally used unicast address must be > >> routable. So this DHCP mechanism can only be used as a second > >> step, moving from the self-generated address to a centrally > >> managed address. > > > > Yes, that seems possible (but I have to re-read the DHCPv6 RFC after > > my vacations ;-) > > > > Ulrich > > > >> > >> Teco > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Op 30 jul 2010, om 17:40 heeft Templin, Fred L het volgende > >> geschreven: > >> > >>> Teco, > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: autoconf-bounces@ietf.org > >>>> [mailto:autoconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Teco Boot > >>>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 4:58 AM To: autoconf@ietf.org > >>>> autoconf@ietf.org Subject: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without > >>>> link-local? Support only EUI-64interfaces? > >>>> > >>>> RFC3315: ... The client MUST use a link-local address > >>>> assigned to the interface for which it is requesting > >>>> configuration information as the source address in the header > >>>> of the IP datagram. > >>>> > >>>> Question: can we get around a MUST in a standards track RFC? I > >>>> don't think so. > >>> > >>> If the MANET router only behaves as a client on an internal link > >>> (e.g., a loopback) but behaves as a relay on its MANET > >>> interfaces, then link-locals need not be exposed for DHCPv6 > >>> purposes. There are other reasons why link-locals might need to > >>> be considered for MANETs, but I'm not sure this is one of them. > >>> > >>> Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com > >>> > >>>> The to be posted proposed text for to be RFC5889 would say > >>>> that if link-locals are used, there are potential problems > >>>> when using other than modified EUI-64 IIDs, and therefore must > >>>> be based on modified EUI-64 IIDs. > >>>> > >>>> Second question, on first item in charter: do we limit ourself > >>>> to MANET routers that has modified EUI-64 link-locals? I > >>>> think: better think twice. > >>>> > >>>> Opinions? > >>>> > >>>> Teco. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ Autoconf > >>>> mailing list Autoconf@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf > >> > >> _______________________________________________ Autoconf mailing > >> list Autoconf@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf > >> > > _______________________________________________ Autoconf mailing list > > Autoconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Autoconf mailing list > Autoconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf -- Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano http://www.netcoms.net GPG FP: D29B 0A6A 639A A561 93CA 4D55 35DC BA4D D170 4F67
- [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? Suppo… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Henning Rogge
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Rogge Henning
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Henning Rogge
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Teco Boot
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Carlos Jesús Bernardos Cano
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [Autoconf] Using DHCPv6 without link-local? S… Joe Macker