Re: [Autoconf] Updated ad hoc addressing model document

On Feb 4, 2010, at 14:43 , Thomas Heide Clausen wrote:
> 
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 17:13 PM, Teco Boot wrote:
> 
>> Ryuji, Thomas,
>> 
>> I commented on the document.
>> I don't see any reflection in the document, nor received questions
>> for clarification.
>> 
>> I am quite uncomfortable with a large drawback of the proposed
>> addressing model, which makes it unacceptable for the deployed MANETs
>> I am involved in.
>> My requirement is that L3 communication between nodes, that have L2
>> connectivity, must be possible in all conditions, including conditions
>> with a non-operational MANET protocol.
> 
> I would wonder if you have a MANET if you are not running a MANET protocol?
> 
> That said, I am not sure I understand what the drawbacks you identify are. The document takes the "most conservative" approach, i.e. a network in which interfaces are configured in accordance to this, should allow any operation. The document, as I read it, uses "should", which does not prohibit alternatives (with the usual caveat concerning a "should").
> 
> I believe that if you have no "MANET protocol", but still want L3 communication between identified interfaces (IP addresses), then you would want a mechanism/protocol assigning these addresses? For the reasons outlined in that document, those addresses should (to allow any operation / any protocol to operate) satisfy the suggested rules in the document. If you do deviate from the "should", the usual caveats for a "should" apply -- and it might be OK for your deployment?

I agree with this interpretation. The autoconf addressing model doesn't prevent you from applying another mechanism in addition to the (really minimal) base it provides. At least this is what we are doing in 6lowpan. The autoconf model provides a way to model these "links with undetermined properties" in a pretty clean way (best I have seen so far... it is a mind-boggling problem). On top of that we are defining a mechanism to bootstrap nodes, configure addresses etc. which works without a routing protocol, or with one (e.g. RPL or MANET). This doesn't directly apply to your case, just an example.

So to really make such a network work you have options like:

autoconf + manet (all nodes must be routers)
autoconf + something (no routing)
autoconf + something + manet (maybe to also support hosts?)
autoconf + 6lowpan-nd + rpl (typical 6lowpan setup right now)

I guess autoconf as a WG will go on to define "something", or at least identify "something(s)" at some point? At least it would be useful to help people really apply this model in practice.

Zach

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
>> Maybe this drawback is overlooked or underestimated.
>> 
>> And the text on link locals does not describe how IPv6 works. LLs are
>> used in MANETs for multiple purposes. We can't without.
>> 
>> My other comments are textual or on incompleteness. Especially, the
>> document doesn't describe anything useful for assigning globals.
>> 
>> Regards, Teco
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> Van: autoconf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:autoconf-bounces@ietf.org] Namens
>>> Ryuji Wakikawa
>>> Verzonden: woensdag 27 januari 2010 9:00
>>> Aan: Emmanuel Baccelli
>>> CC: autoconf@ietf.org
>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Autoconf] Updated ad hoc addressing model document
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Emmanuel updated the document according to the WG last call.
>>> Please confirm the changes specially if you sent comments during WGLC.
>>> 
>>> We will pass this document to Jari for the next stage soon.
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> ryuji
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2010/01/26, at 4:09, Emmanuel Baccelli wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Folks,
>>>> 
>>>> here's an updated version of the ad hoc addressing model document,
>>> following the comments gathered during working group last call. We took
>>> as much as possible on board, as discussed on the mailing list. Please
>>> review this revision, and let us know if you have further comments.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-autoconf-adhoc-addr-model-02.txt
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Emmanuel
>>>> 
>>>> 
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-- 
http://www.sensinode.com
http://zachshelby.org - My blog "On the Internet of Things"
http://6lowpan.net - New book - "6LoWPAN: The Wireless Embedded Internet"
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Zach Shelby
Head of Research
Sensinode Ltd.
Kidekuja 2
88610 Vuokatti, FINLAND

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