Re: [AVTCORE] WGLC on draft-ietf-avtcore-ecn-for-rtp-04

"Dan Wing" <> Thu, 13 October 2011 17:35 UTC

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From: "Dan Wing" <>
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Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:35:05 -0700
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Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] WGLC on draft-ietf-avtcore-ecn-for-rtp-04
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Two comments:

1. The section
does not seem to discuss what happens if the ECN-marked ICE messages are
discarded (e.g., by an aggressive firewall).  This seems to be an oversight.
For this to work better, I suggest sending two STUN messages, back to back:
one with ECN set and the other with ECN clear.  If the response to the
ECN-set message isn't received within, say, 20% of the time for the
ECN-cleared message, assume ECN-marked messages are being dropped/filtered.
Note one of the non-ECN'd messages can be the normal ICE exchange, so if
you're already doing ICE I am not proposing any additional messages on the

I expect the other packet probes (RTP/RTCP probes) may need similar
consideration / adjustment.

2. The section
can be summarized as:

  a. do normal ICE
  b. use ICE messages to do an ECN validation
  c. if (b) showed ECN worked, start sending RTP with ECN.  
  d. if (b) showed ECN failed, start sending RTP without ECN.

Step (b-d) adds additional call setup time, which is undesirable.

Instead, I would prefer changing two aspects:  (1) not relying or caring
about an initial ICE transaction (which means we can have both endpoints
merely do ICE-Lite, if they wish -- we only need to know they will respond
to ICE, really -- we don't need all of the other ICE overhead to use ICE to
test the path is ECN capable), and (2) sending non-ECN'd RTP without
waiting.  That can be summarized as:

  a. immediately start sending RTP without ECN
  b. use ICE messages to do ECN validation
  c. if (b) showed ECN worked, start sending RTP with ECN.  
  d. if (b) showed ECN failed, start sending RTP without ECN.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [] On Behalf Of
> Roni Even
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 5:29 AM
> To:
> Subject: [AVTCORE] WGLC on draft-ietf-avtcore-ecn-for-rtp-04
> Hi,
> I would like to start a WGLC on
> avtcore-ecn-for-rtp-04 , Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) for RTP
> over UDP.
> The WGLC will end on October 21, 2011
> Please review the draft and send comments to the list.
> Roni Even