Re: [AVTCORE] [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC

I would personally be very interested in a "video over QUIC" working group
or mailing list.

The directness of this draft is perhaps what's most interesting to me.
In particular, the absence of out-of-band signaling / session establishment
stands in striking contrast with another UDP-based media ingest option:
WebRTC.

The signaling needed for session establishment (and the diversity of
implementations for such signaling) has historically been a barrier for
WebRTC adoption as an ingest protocol outside of the browser context.
WISH-WG is working to improve that situation for WebRTC of course, but a
new QUIC-based ingest protocol presents an opportunity to sidestep some of
those known-issues by making an architectural decision up front about
whether that style of session management is necessary in a video
contribution workflow.

I'm hoping others with more experience on these lists can speak to the
history and tradeoffs associated with those approaches, but I just wanted
to call attention to the aspect of the draft that seemed most notable to me
as an operator of a low latency streaming platform where WebRTC egress and
ingest capabilities are provided, but where RTMP is still the de facto
ingest protocol of choice for many users.

Thanks for sharing this work!
-Mike

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Victor Vasiliev <vasilvv=
40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> Excited to see this draft!
>
> Since this isn't technically in scope for either avtcore, wish or quic
> working groups, what would people think about making a new mailing list for
> video over QUIC?
>
> Cheers,
>  Victor.
>
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 3:27 AM Justin Uberti <
> juberti@alphaexplorationco.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 1:35 PM Roberto Peon <fenix=
>> 40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Seems like a good idea to me, unless there is a home that is already
>>> well suited!
>>>
>>> -=R
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Luke Curley <
>>> kixelated@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 1:16 PM
>>> *To: *Alan Frindell <afrind=40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Cc: *"quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, Sergio Garcia Murillo <
>>> sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com>, "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>, "
>>> wish@ietf.org" <wish@ietf.org>, Kirill Pugin <ikir@fb.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Alan, thanks for publishing your protocol!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Twitch has also been working on a video over QUIC protocol, albeit
>>> primarily for video distribution instead of contribution. We're very
>>> interested in collaborating on RUSH and producing a new standard for live
>>> streaming! Would there be broader interest in forming a video over QUIC
>>> working group?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 12:04 PM Alan Frindell <afrind=
>>> 40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Sergio, thanks for your interest in the draft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m interested in seeing a video ingest protocol standard that leverages
>>> QUIC as a transport, has some partial reliability support, and is less
>>> connection-oriented so that servers can go down for maintenance without
>>> impacting ingest reliability or having arbitrarily long drain times.  We
>>> published our RUSH draft to help kickstart the conversation but we’re open
>>> to feedback and modifications if they help advance those goals.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 9:02 AM
>>> *To: *Alan Frindell <afrind@fb.com>
>>> *Cc: *"quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, "wish@ietf.org" <wish@ietf.org>,
>>> "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>, Kirill Pugin <ikir@fb.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Alan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that the correct place for discussing it is AVTCORE as Bernard
>>> has indicated, as  WISH is not chartered to implement any new media
>>> protocol.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The draft is very interesting and I would be willing to collaborate,
>>> what is your main interest? Do you want to try to publish it as it is or
>>> would you be accepting feedback and include modifications?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Sergio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El mar, 13 jul 2021 a las 17:37, Alan Frindell (<afrind=
>>> 40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org>) escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi, for several years, Facebook has been using its own video ingest
>>> protocol over QUIC from our apps to our infra.  While we’ve spoken about it
>>> before, we just now published a draft documenting how it works:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kpugin-rush-00.html.
>>>
>>> The protocol leverages the advantages of QUIC transport, and features a
>>> partially reliable mode using only QUIC v1 RST_STREAM.
>>>
>>> We welcome your feedback
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> -Alan Frindell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wish mailing list
>>> Wish@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wish mailing list
>>> Wish@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance
>>> avt@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt
>>>
>> --
> Wish mailing list
> Wish@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish
>