Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory and draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options
"Roni Even" <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com> Sun, 03 November 2013 18:43 UTC
Return-Path: <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6506A11E82D4 for <avt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:43:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1X9V4ovKlDWV for <avt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:43:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-bk0-x22b.google.com (mail-bk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C08811E82D7 for <avt@ietf.org>; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:43:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-bk0-f43.google.com with SMTP id mz11so2082787bkb.30 for <avt@ietf.org>; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:43:37 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:thread-index:content-language; bh=M8zhjTD1KZ8giHq7fenEY1jKGbGOeAB0J/Zz5eoAbmQ=; b=B1DX/XKW+G+jkRTZD9k0emafvoQDSVExxaz7F+iVJQn+1NCI9g54usNiWBUv+kHWDo KB9nGU5z8L3QT/NEv7n2gyz2ZicrtNvmz+9cYAX4Gnwab5ORcihmFb2a64Yt3Rh3Vjn2 MglZYthuB1FqRBSJoTmtt0YfYFtcBpO3jM1QglGS2VHXA/TzuIx8Aww6iOkMG8YREkFq LtVat7eaVT+gb1A/i+tZCCFCEU+eX1GFaUey6F8n2t5Q21tY/kFH3gOAMMt5nXCTHvNY P1rBuilEPPvASr6EPNJOuBHb+BBUMr70z9QjJBw9QJhwdnLjhl7YlT5piyO+AQopdxKR mjtg==
X-Received: by 10.205.10.200 with SMTP id pb8mr7229981bkb.16.1383504217011; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:43:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from RoniE ([2001:67c:370:160:7c8c:2661:ea9b:6b8b]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pu8sm12232470bkb.9.2013.11.03.10.43.34 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:43:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com>
To: 'Richard Barnes' <rlb@ipv.sx>, 'Colin Perkins' <csp@csperkins.org>
References: <CAL02cgRRvx8puZoDRHv39Am+2oHy44iion_x77WfiqW0hEPgxw@mail.gmail.com> <C9DBB09E-139A-456C-B79B-062AAFA60502@csperkins.org> <CAL02cgRXKvZCzdUu8Chp2J-Y1YnEoWv3A+kUNawrkHwnHq11qQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAL02cgRXKvZCzdUu8Chp2J-Y1YnEoWv3A+kUNawrkHwnHq11qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:40:18 +0200
Message-ID: <014501ced8c4$278636e0$7692a4a0$@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0146_01CED8D4.EB152160"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQEurJVaTP4u+XIFCgCrzt4msSXPsAJdcGJmAVQUdr2bNqJPwA==
Content-Language: en-us
Cc: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory@tools.ietf.org, avt@ietf.org, draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory and draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options
X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance <avt.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/avt>, <mailto:avt-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/avt>
List-Post: <mailto:avt@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:avt-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt>, <mailto:avt-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 18:43:43 -0000
Hi Richard, I think that the purpose of the security option is as the name says to list the options and not recommend anything leaving it to the specific deployment like RTCweb to make recommendation. In this case if we try to recommend order it may just cause further discussion about the order and priority which is what we wanted to avoid in this work in the first place Roni From: avt-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:avt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard Barnes Sent: 03 November, 2013 8:18 PM To: Colin Perkins Cc: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory@tools.ietf.org; avt@ietf.org; draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory and draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> wrote: On 2 Nov 2013, at 17:12, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote: On draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mandatory: I have reviewed this draft in preparation for IETF Last Call and IESG processing. Clearly, this is not the best moment in history to be making this sort of argument, given the increased focus on . However, I think this document makes the case pretty clearly. It helps to have draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options as a positive statement to go alongside this document. Note that the srtp-not-mandatory draft is explicitly not saying "strong security is not mandatory", rather it's saying that "strong security is mandatory, but the appropriate way of providing it depends on the context, and SRTP is not always the answer". I agree. It helps though, to be able to say "SRTP is not always the answer ... but something in this set of things should be." On draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-security-options: I have reviewed this draft in preparation for IETF Last Call and IESG processing. One question to discuss briefly before IETF LC: My major concern is that it seems like there's a lot of old stuff in here. Has the WG considered explicitly marking each of the mechanisms with some sort of recommendation level? I would like to avoid having someone choose SDES in a case where they could use DTLS-SRTP, for example. Such recommendations would be very helpful, but depend on the scenario. Section 5 gives some pointers, but really we need security architecture drafts for particular use cases of RTP (like the WebRTC security arch, for example). I agree that if you're going to make detailed recommendations, you need more specifics. It seems like you could provide some general guidance though. Could we something like the following? -- Arrange the mechanisms in the document in an ordered list -- "If more than one mechanism would work for your application, use the higher-pref one" -- Throw certain things in a NOT RECOMMENDED bucket, like ZRTP and the legacy stuff in S3.2 Part of the advice should also be a reference to BCP 107 [1], "Guidelines for Cryptographic Key Management". Namely, things that provide automated key management should be preferred over things that don't. --Richard [1] <http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp107> Colin If the authors could follow up on that one point, we should be able to get these both into LC soon. Thanks, --Richard _______________________________________________ Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance avt@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt -- Colin Perkins http://csperkins.org/
- [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-mand… Richard Barnes
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Colin Perkins
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Richard Barnes
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Roni Even
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Colin Perkins
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Richard Barnes
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… John Mattsson
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] AD review: draft-ietf-avt-srtp-not-… Richard Barnes