Re: [AVTCORE] draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-over-quic: Normative references to Internet Drafts

Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com> Thu, 02 November 2023 00:48 UTC

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From: Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2023 00:48:16 +0000
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To: Mathis Engelbart <mathis.engelbart@tum.de>
Cc: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>, IETF AVTCore WG <avt@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-over-quic: Normative references to Internet Drafts
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FYI the Ack Frequency draft was put into WGLC on October 30 [1] - please
take a look and provide any feedback you might have.

Cheers
Lucas

[1] -
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/U_HOrSUJ07vPR5IPgCpl1MXuOcY/

On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 8:20 PM Mathis Engelbart <mathis.engelbart@tum.de>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I opened pull request #133 to address this issue. I also removed the
> normative reference to the ACK frequency draft because there was no
> concrete usage other than in a list of optional extensions. That list is
> still there but in an appendix. There are still normative references to
> the timestamp drafts in the congestion control section, but they will be
> removed in a different pull request (#134, I tried to avoid conflicts
> while editing multiple sections).
>
> You can view the pull request here:
>
> https://github.com/mengelbart/rtp-over-quic-draft/pull/133
>
> And a diff to the main branch version of the draft here:
>
>
> https://author-tools.ietf.org/api/iddiff?url_1=https://mengelbart.github.io/rtp-over-quic-draft/draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-over-quic.txt&url_2=https://mengelbart.github.io/rtp-over-quic-draft/fix/127-normative-references/draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-over-quic.txt
>
> Best,
> Mathis
>
> On 09/10/2023 12:19, Lucas Pardue wrote:
> > Agree with Magnus
> >
> > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023, 11:17 Magnus Westerlund,
> > <magnus.westerlund=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> > <mailto:40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi,____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     I would note that the ACK frequency draft is very close to being all
> >     done. I think it is basically a WG last call away from pub-request.
> >     So I think throwing that out would be misguided. I think rather the
> >     WG chairs should coordinate with the QUIC WG chairs to ensure that
> >     you keep track of each others timeline, and possibly help push the
> >     QUIC WG to complete that document. ____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     The others are clearly individual drafts that hasn’t been adopted so
> >     I think those needs to be addressed. ____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Cheers____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Magnus____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     *From: *avt <avt-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:avt-bounces@ietf.org>> on
> >     behalf of Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com
> >     <mailto:bernard.aboba@gmail.com>>
> >     *Date: *Sunday, 24 September 2023 at 20:33
> >     *To: *IETF AVTCore WG <avt@ietf.org <mailto:avt@ietf.org>>
> >     *Subject: *[AVTCORE] draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-over-quic: Normative
> >     references to Internet Drafts____
> >
> >     With the QUIC specifications still evolving, this specification is
> >     put in a difficult position.  Beyond the basic QUIC specifications,
> >     there are extensions which could be of potential benefit.  However,
> >     some of the extensions are not yet WG work items, or are not widely
> >     deployed, or may take some time to be published as RFCs, or may
> >     never be published as RFCs. ____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Currently, the document has an Appendix A: List of Optional QUIC
> >     extensions, which states "The following is a list of QUIC protocol
> >     extensions that might be beneficial for RoQ, but are not required by
> >     RoQ." Putting discussion of non-RFC QUIC extensions into a
> >     (non-normative) Appendix seems like a good idea, if it could allow
> >     the main specification to focus on the core QUIC functionality and
> >     avoid normative references to documents which may or may not ever be
> >     published as RFCs. ____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     However, the problem is that discussion of the extensions is not
> >     limited to the (non-normative) Appendix, but is contained in other
> >     sections, including Sections 7, 7.3.4 and 8.1.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     This results in normative references to [I-D.draft-huitema-quic-ts],
> >     [I-D.draft-ietf-quic-ack-frequency] and
> >     [I-D.draft-smith-quic-receive-ts]. ¶
> >     <
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-over-quic-05#appendix-A-1
> >____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     I would like to suggest that the RTP over QUIC specification be
> >     restructured so as to only normatively reference documents which
> >     have been published as RFCs.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     For this to work, material in Sections 7 and 8 may need to be moved
> >     to Appendix A, which would presumably avoid normative references.
> ____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
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