[AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec
"Lauri Ilola (Nokia)" <lauri.ilola@nokia.com> Tue, 20 August 2024 08:28 UTC
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From: "Lauri Ilola (Nokia)" <lauri.ilola@nokia.com>
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "Lauri Ilola (Nokia)" <lauri.ilola=40nokia.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Lukasz Kondrad (Nokia)" <lukasz.kondrad@nokia.com>, Jonathan Lennox <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com>, "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Design question about the V3C codec
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:28:30 +0000
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Subject: [AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec
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Hi Christer, all, I think you are right. Let me add some clarifying text to the next version. Kind Regards, -Lauri -----Original Message----- From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2024 2:57 PM To: Lauri Ilola (Nokia) <lauri.ilola=40nokia.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Lukasz Kondrad (Nokia) <lukasz.kondrad@nokia.com>; Jonathan Lennox <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com>; avt@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-v3c@ietf.org Subject: RE: Design question about the V3C codec Hi, Even if the V3C-offerer decides to not send 2D video, it cannot prevent the V3C-ignorant-answerer from sending 2D video. There are ways of performing the negotiation before anything is sent. I don't think the draft needs to mandate those, but it should at least make the readers aware of the issue. Regards, Christer > -----Original Message----- > From: Lauri Ilola (Nokia) <lauri.ilola=40nokia.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > Sent: Friday, 19 July 2024 3.59 > To: Lukasz Kondrad (Nokia) <lukasz.kondrad@nokia.com>; Jonathan Lennox > <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com>; avt@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-v3c@ietf.org > Subject: [AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec > > You don't often get email from > lauri.ilola=40nokia.com@dmarc.ietf.org. Learn why this is important > <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> > > > Hi Jonathan, all, > > > > Thanks for the review and question. I would agree with what Lukasz outlines > below. It’s perhaps an implementation detail that don’t need additional > restrictions. There are alternative implementation designs that will depend on > the way the sender is setup, how the encoder is configured and the level of > ignorance of the receiver. > > > > 1. Fully ignorant V3C receiver probably doesn’t want to receive any V3C > specific media lines. > > a. But there may be scenarios, where the receiver will regardless > want to see what the media lines contain. As these are just video, a receiver > can indeed inspect the contents of these. > > 2. Partially ignorant (incompatible profile for example), could decide to > receive part of the videos depending on its capabilities. > 3. There could be also a scenario, where the media description contains a > pre-rendered 2D viewport of the volumetric information. > > > > Should we clarify these designs for the specification or leave the freedom for > implementers? > > > > Kind Regards, > > -Lauri > > > > From: Lukasz Kondrad (Nokia) <lukasz.kondrad@nokia.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 4:34 PM > To: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com>; avt@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-v3c@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Design question about the V3C codec > > > > Dear Jonathan, > > Thank you very much for the review. > > > > When a V3C-capable offerer sends an offer to a V3C-ignorant answerer, the > answerer will ignore the V3C atlas codec and V3C-related parameters, but as > you wrote it will likely try negotiating the video streams. > > > > I would think it is to the implementation of the V3C-capable offerer, it could: > > * say I do not provide alternative 2D version of the content so if > answerer do not support atlas then I do not send him anything > * say I provide alternative 2D version so I can send him one 2D video > representation of the content > > > > May you elaborate what/where in the draft the codec’s signaling would need > to change. > > > > Br, > > Lukasz > > > > From: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com > <mailto:jonathan.lennox@8x8.com> > > Date: Monday, 24. June 2024 at 21:38 > To: avt@ietf.org <mailto:avt@ietf.org> <avt@ietf.org <mailto:avt@ietf.org> > > Cc: draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-v3c@ietf.org <mailto:draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp- > v3c@ietf.org> <draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-v3c@ietf.org <mailto:draft-ietf-avtcore- > rtp-v3c@ietf.org> > > Subject: Design question about the V3C codec > > > CAUTION: This is an external email. Please be very careful when clicking links or > opening attachments. See the URL nok.it/ext for additional information. > > > > Hi all — I’ve read over the latest V3C codec draft, as I promised at the interim. > > My biggest question about the draft is a design question, about how > backward compatibility in offer/answer should be supported. > > As the draft is currently written, when a V3C-capable offerer sends an offer to > a V3C-ignorant answerer, the answerer will ignore the V3C atlas codec and > V3C-related parameters, but it can (and likely will) negotiate the video streams > as 2D streams without any volumetric component, thus establishing a call with > 2D video. > > Is this what you want? Or would you rather define the payload such that a > V3C-ignorant answerer will completely ignore the volumetric m-lines, and > negotiate something with a cleaner fallback (e.g. audio-only, rejecting the call > entirely, etc.) > > If the latter is what you want, the codec’s signaling will need changes. > > Jonathan Lennox > As an individual
- [AVTCORE] Design question about the V3C codec Jonathan Lennox
- [AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec Lukasz Kondrad (Nokia)
- [AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec Lauri Ilola (Nokia)
- [AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec Christer Holmberg
- [AVTCORE] Re: Design question about the V3C codec Lauri Ilola (Nokia)