Re: [avtext] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05

Hi, Roni —

You seem to be assuming that a refresh and an upgrade are two different actions.  That’s not the intention — a refresh is a characteristic of a stream that allows a decoder to upgrade.

I’ll try to draft some text that makes it clear that it’s possible either to independently upgrade temporal or spatial, or else upgrade both at once.

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> I assume the new text you propose is 
> 
> "When C is 1, TTID MUST NOT be less than CTID, and TLID MUST NOT be
>   less than CLID; at least one of TTID or TLID MUST be greater than
>   CTID or CLID respectively.  That is to say, the target layer index
>   <TTID, TLID> MUST be a layer upgrade from the current layer index
>   <CTID, CLID>.  A sender MAY request an upgrade in both temporal and
>   spatial/quality layers simultaneously."
> 
> I think that this text still only implies the behavior, also the current text talks about upgrade but I assume it is also for a refresh not only to upgrade
> 
> Maybe " A sender MAY request an upgrade or refresh  in both temporal and
>   spatial/quality layers simultaneously by either having C =1 or by having both CLID and CTID with lower values then TTID and TLID. If the sender want to upgrade or refresh only one layer then C MUST be equal to 1 and only the CTID or  the CLID of the layer to be upgraded or refreshed should be lower than the TTID or TLID respectively "
> 
> 
> Roni
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com]
>> Sent: יום ד 07 יוני 2017 18:30
>> To: Roni Even
>> Cc: Roni Even; draft-ietf-avtext-lrr.all@ietf.org; General Area Review Team;
>> avtext@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 7, 2017, at 1:15 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>> I did not see the text you added yet as a response to my first
>>> question So to better clarify my question . If the FCI has TTID=0 and TLID=2 .
>> does it mean that it is a request to update both?
>>> This was also the reason for the question about both TTID=0 and TLID=0,
>> which layer need update or is it both?
>>> Can you say that you want just to update temporal or spatial?
>> 
>> Yes, if the FCI has TTID=0 and TLID=2, it’s a request to update both layers —
>> or more specifically, to make sure that you can start decoding the substream
>> with TTID=0 and TLID=2. (For most scalability structures this would mean
>> updating both, but exotic structures are possible.)
>> 
>> If you want to just update one part of the stream, that’s what CTID and CLID
>> are for.  If you sent TTID=0 and TLID=2, accompanied by CTID=0 and CLID=0,
>> that means that you already have TID 0, and you just want to increase the
>> LID.
>> 
>> The current text is at https://github.com/juberti/draughts/tree/master/lrr ,
>> if you want to take a look at the latest revisions, or suggest text that you
>> think would make it cleaner.
>> 
>> 
>>> Roni
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gen-art [mailto:gen-art-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan
>>>> Lennox
>>>> Sent: יום ד 07 יוני 2017 00:30
>>>> To: Roni Even
>>>> Cc: draft-ietf-avtext-lrr.all@ietf.org; General Area Review Team;
>>>> avtext@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of
>>>> draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-05
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, Roni — thanks for your review.  Responses inline.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 2:53 AM, Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reviewer: Roni Even
>>>>> Review result: Ready with Issues
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
>>>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by
>>>>> the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just like
>>>>> any other last call comments.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>>>>> 
>>>>> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Document: draft-ietf-avtext-lrr-??
>>>>> Reviewer: Roni Even
>>>>> Review Date: 2017-05-31
>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-06-08
>>>>> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
>>>>> 
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> The document is ready with issues for a standard track RFC Major
>>>>> issues:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Minor issues:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. Can you specify both TTID and TLID in the same FCI.
>>>> 
>>>> Syntactically, they must both occur.
>>>> 
>>>> If you mean can you request an upgrade in both at once, yes; I’ve
>>>> added text to clarify this.
>>>> 
>>>>> 2. What is the meaning of value 0 for TTID and TLID - TID or LID =0
>>>>> in frame marking draft means base layer if there is scalability.
>>>>>   This relates to the previous question.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m not sure I understand this question.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve added text that if C=1, at least one of <TTID, TLID> MUST be
>>>> greater than <CTID, CLID>, and both MUST be greater than or equal to
>>>> their counterpart, so the LRR is actually requesting a layer upgrade.
>>>> Is that what you were asking about?
>>>> 
>>>>> 3.  What would an FCI with both TTID and TLID equal 0 mean.
>>>> 
>>>> It means you want a refresh of the base temporal/spatial layer, only.
>>>> 
>>>>> Nits/editorial comments:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. Section 3 "an Real-Time Transport Control Protocol" should be "a
>>>>> Real…".
>>>> 
>>>> Colin pointed out that it should say “an RTP Control Protocol” anyway.
>>>> 
>>>>> 2. In section 3 " [RFC5104](Section 3.5.1)" there is a link to
>>>>> section
>>>>> 3.5.1 but it does not work.
>>>> 
>>>> xml2rfc doesn’t have any way to link to sections of other documents,
>>>> so the “(Section 3.5.1)” part is just a comment.
>>>> 
>>>> I think the internet-draft tooling may have thought I was trying to
>>>> link to a non-existent section 3.5.1 of this document, but that’s outside
>> my control.
>>>> 
>>>>> 3. In section 3.2 "(see section Section 2.1)" section appears twice.
>>>> 
>>>> Fixed.
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> 