Re: [babel] Mirja Kühlewind's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> Wed, 08 January 2020 00:26 UTC

Return-Path: <jch@irif.fr>
X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2251120020; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 16:26:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LDrQ50E9OtsC; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 16:26:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0668120018; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 16:26:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 0080QEx6019849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Jan 2020 01:26:14 +0100
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 0080QDpN001500; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 01:26:13 +0100
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17AF4CF89C; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 01:26:17 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id 83frNfZMk-i2; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 01:26:15 +0100 (CET)
Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 55499CF89A; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 01:26:14 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 01:26:14 +0100
Message-ID: <87tv56x07t.wl-jch@irif.fr>
From: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
To: Teco Boot <teco@inf-net.nl>
Cc: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, "draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis@ietf.org>, Babel at IETF <babel@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>, "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
In-Reply-To: <019A54A0-5414-4D3E-8DC3-294CE7F9E774@inf-net.nl>
References: <156517737995.8257.5538554979559246700.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <877e7m8b88.wl-jch@irif.fr> <1A2B2C1B-1536-4E75-A8D7-C5612FB8AEDA@kuehlewind.net> <87imqzu1vc.wl-jch@irif.fr> <0C555879-5AF3-487F-A65D-95918A546783@kuehlewind.net> <87imomknn0.wl-jch@irif.fr> <B3A7583A-B4DE-4CE5-A74D-0D4C22FABD83@kuehlewind.net> <160C625D-866B-40D3-8549-7E714F8F8E9B@kuehlewind.net> <CAPDSy+6c_WxJ+KoT5uJZG=xCMomDgOukLXHdseQ10yL_+MGyiA@mail.gmail.com> <89C41AAF-B019-4872-9AED-278D6FE7EE0E@kuehlewind.net> <87lfra9a2s.wl-jch@irif.fr> <35766A70-6E3D-4216-B559-811F6B3FB46F@kuehlewind.net> <87r212n59b.wl-jch@irif.fr> <63DE7522-7FFF-49F4-9126-A2C4B66596B4@kuehlewind.net> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6115372A0DD@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <FDF8068F-3A71-4FE9-A24F-A2C39B94119B@kuehlewind.net> <87sgkrtriw.wl-jch@irif.fr> <019A54A0-5414-4D3E-8DC3-294CE7F9E774@inf-net.nl>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 08 Jan 2020 01:26:15 +0100 (CET)
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 08 Jan 2020 01:26:13 +0100 (CET)
X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 5E1521A6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 5E1521A5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 5E1521A6.001 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/<jch@irif.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 5E1521A5.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/<jch@irif.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 5E1521A6.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 5E1521A5.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/babel/5ohFpia_BUVYjhwbjotRthPRezc>
Subject: Re: [babel] Mirja Kühlewind's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." <babel.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/babel>, <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/babel/>
List-Post: <mailto:babel@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel>, <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 00:26:26 -0000

Hi Teco,

> This is in line with for example the OSPF RFCs.
> But for unmanaged networks, good advice from an authority is almost mandatory.

The advice is already there, it's in Appendix B, and it's referenced at
all the relevant points in the document.  However, Babel is designed so
that the exact values don't matter, so it's merely advice, not a recommendation.

That the exact values don't matter is the whole point of Babel -- it's
designed to interoperate in the presence of asymmetric configuration,
which is why it's useful in community and unmanaged networks.  If we start
recommending a default set of values, we obfuscate this fact, at which
point we're no longer communicating clearly why Babel might, in some
deployments, be a good alternative to OSPF.

I've repeatedly explained this back in August, but apparently wasn't clear
enough.

> For Homenets, this could be draft-ietf-homenet-babel-profile.

Homenet-babel-profile goes further than that -- it defines the set of
extensions required in order to implement Homenet routing (MUST IPv6,
SHOULD IPv4, MUST source-specific routing), and it defines the
interactions between HNCP and Babel.

-- Juliusz