Re: [babel] Mirja Kühlewind's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> Tue, 07 January 2020 11:50 UTC

Return-Path: <jch@irif.fr>
X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9A9120026; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 03:50:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZLfc9o6zQero; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 03:50:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E482A120089; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 03:50:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 007BnwVZ020633; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 12:49:58 +0100
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0052C51AA; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 12:50:00 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id sDrGZD8bF0w6; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 12:49:59 +0100 (CET)
Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23E99C51A5; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 12:49:59 +0100 (CET)
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:49:59 +0100
Message-ID: <87sgkrtriw.wl-jch@irif.fr>
From: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
To: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
Cc: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>, "draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis@ietf.org>, Babel at IETF <babel@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>
In-Reply-To: <FDF8068F-3A71-4FE9-A24F-A2C39B94119B@kuehlewind.net>
References: <156517737995.8257.5538554979559246700.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <877e7m8b88.wl-jch@irif.fr> <1A2B2C1B-1536-4E75-A8D7-C5612FB8AEDA@kuehlewind.net> <87imqzu1vc.wl-jch@irif.fr> <0C555879-5AF3-487F-A65D-95918A546783@kuehlewind.net> <87imomknn0.wl-jch@irif.fr> <B3A7583A-B4DE-4CE5-A74D-0D4C22FABD83@kuehlewind.net> <160C625D-866B-40D3-8549-7E714F8F8E9B@kuehlewind.net> <CAPDSy+6c_WxJ+KoT5uJZG=xCMomDgOukLXHdseQ10yL_+MGyiA@mail.gmail.com> <89C41AAF-B019-4872-9AED-278D6FE7EE0E@kuehlewind.net> <87lfra9a2s.wl-jch@irif.fr> <35766A70-6E3D-4216-B559-811F6B3FB46F@kuehlewind.net> <87r212n59b.wl-jch@irif.fr> <63DE7522-7FFF-49F4-9126-A2C4B66596B4@kuehlewind.net> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6115372A0DD@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <FDF8068F-3A71-4FE9-A24F-A2C39B94119B@kuehlewind.net>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:49:58 +0100 (CET)
X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 5E147066.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 5E147066.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/<jch@irif.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 5E147066.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/babel/P0oaneBMMMX4zGYGZACpRo-nwYE>
Subject: Re: [babel] Mirja Kühlewind's Discuss on draft-ietf-babel-rfc6126bis-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." <babel.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/babel>, <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/babel/>
List-Post: <mailto:babel@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel>, <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 11:50:08 -0000

Dear Mirja,

You made the very same proposition on 22 August 2019 (almost half a year ago!).
Here is what I replied at the time:

    I am sorry, but I disagree.  The original document that I submitted for
    IETF review back in 2009 had the structure that you suggest, but the
    reviewer (Joel Halpern) convinced me to a adopt the following structure:

      - the body of the document describes the main algorithm, the parts that
        are required to enforce the strong guarantees that the protocol makes
        about lack of loops and forward progress;
      - the appendices describe algorithms that have been shown to be useful
        over some link layers but that might need to be tweaked when Babel is
        run over new, exciting link layers.

    Since Joel did a good job convincing me, it will take some work to
    convince me otherwise.

-- Juliusz