[babel] Dummy source address [was: I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt]

Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> Tue, 13 April 2021 22:50 UTC

Return-Path: <jch@irif.fr>
X-Original-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: babel@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3CE3A1421 for <babel@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:50:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NnPOiBQ9PnzT for <babel@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:49:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6327F3A1420 for <babel@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 13DMnsrM012642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/82085) with ESMTP id 13DMnsX1007114; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E174114060; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id tHxh3Eg1Q5-4; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:52 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0F3A11405E; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:51 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:51 +0200
Message-ID: <87lf9l6bqo.wl-jch@irif.fr>
From: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Cc: Babel at IETF <babel@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAF4+nEEOpxsuyDwCL0W42ft+a3eMoVwRpLxir3-gRmzL69afEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <161799373903.21494.5029385648255827216@ietfa.amsl.com> <87y2drmgxz.wl-jch@irif.fr> <CAF4+nEGu1Uj12UNz03meFTf7hXsZ1sxvfTHsPNtcRLt+Dncecg@mail.gmail.com> <87mtu2qqgr.wl-jch@irif.fr> <CAF4+nEEOpxsuyDwCL0W42ft+a3eMoVwRpLxir3-gRmzL69afEQ@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/27.1 Mule/6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 (CEST)
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 00:49:54 +0200 (CEST)
X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 60762012.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 60762012.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60762012.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/<jch@irif.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 60762012.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/<jch@irif.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60762012.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 60762012.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/babel/XWDFzK0AZ1UzTdjYCzCmU8U4HoY>
Subject: [babel] Dummy source address [was: I-D Action: draft-ietf-babel-v4viav6-01.txt]
X-BeenThere: babel@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "A list for discussion of the Babel Routing Protocol." <babel.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/babel>, <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/babel/>
List-Post: <mailto:babel@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/babel>, <mailto:babel-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 22:50:02 -0000

> a separate Babel dummy address

I've been thinking about this all evening, and I think I now see what
makes me uncomfortable.  (Dinner helped.)

By the time the IPv4 module has decided it needs to send an ICMPv4 packet,
it does not necessarily know whether the issue it's reporting is due to
Babel or to some routing protocol.  In fact, there might not even be
a well defined responsible protocol -- if a router running both Babel and
BGP finds out that it has no route to a given destination, is the ICMPv4
packet associated with Babel or BGP?

Thus, any implementable procedure for sending ICMPv4 must be independent
of any given routing protocol -- so it's not reasonable to have a Babel
dummy address, distinct from a hypothetical BGP dummy address or an OSPF
dummy address.  If we define a dummy address, that address must be common
across all routing protocols.

Not sure how to proceed:

 1. reuse the 4rd dummy address, as David suggested, repurposing it
    to be a generic dummy address?
 2. write a new RFC defining a cross-protocol dummy address?
 3. define a cross-protocol dummy address in this draft?
 4. remain vague, as in the current text?
 5. some other solution I'm missing?

I'm not volunteering for (2), although I could perhaps be a co-author.
(3) seems like exceeding the scope of this document.  (1) and (4) would be
fine with me.

-- Juliusz