Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2
Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> Wed, 28 November 2018 21:19 UTC
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From: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk>
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To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: Dave Täht <dave@taht.net>, babel-users <babel-users@lists.alioth.debian.org>, Babel at IETF <babel@ietf.org>
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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:19:41 +0100
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Subject: Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2
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Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> writes: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:23 PM Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> wrote: >> >> Dave Taht <dave@taht.net> writes: >> >> > Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> writes: >> > >> >> Dave Taht <dave@taht.net> writes: >> >> >> >>> so we invent a new keyword "serial". >> >> >> >> So what you're trying to express here is the notion of a "receive-only" >> >> key that is not used for signing outgoing packets, right? >> > >> > >> > No... the old key is retired from active use in the protocol after >> > concensus is achieved on the new key by the protocol, and not used >> > again unless a router comes up with an unreadable hmac. In that case >> > we go back to at least trying to verify (periodically?) that it's not >> > using the old key (if we still have it around) and if it's using the >> > old key, we go back to signing stuff with that key. >> > >> > Does that concept need to be in the protocol spec? >> >> This reads to me like a specific operational procedure for deployment; >> don't think that should go into the spec, no. >> >> >> it would be better to express that explicitly as a property of the key >> >> config that can be changed on a per-key basis. For one thing, 'serial' >> >> is misleading as it sounds like something that affects the wire >> >> format, >> > >> > OK. how about "new" and "old" as keywords? That implies two states and >> > two states only. I liked 0 and X as numbers, so long as the ascending >> > property is maintained. As for why not 0 and 1, see below. >> > >> > Totally open to bikeshedding the name. :) babeltowerno? >> >> Don't care what they are called. My point is just that it's a property >> of a particular key. >> >> Bird already has this, BTW: each key can be set to "generate" signatures >> and "accept" signatures, where the former puts them on the wire, and the >> latter will accept packets signed with that key. You can set time ranges >> for each or both. See >> https://bird.network.cz/?get_doc&v=20&f=bird-3.html (search for >> "password option"). The Babel HMAC implementation inherits this. > > That is essentially my first proposal... in bird syntax. :) Aside from > needing good time, there are really good reasons to stage key > rotations that way.... > > while the odds are much better that a boot/bootstrapping bird router > has a working rtc, your typical home router doesn't. No, but you can use the mechanism without the timeouts to mark keys as active/passive using whatever provisioning system you are using to distribute the keys (just use "{generate,accept} from 1970-01-01"). -Toke
- [babel] key rotation take #2 Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2 Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2 Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2 Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2 Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2 Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] key rotation take #2 Juliusz Chroboczek