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From: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
To: "'tom petch'" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, "'Carsten Bormann'" <cabo@tzi.org>,
 "'Juergen Schoenwaelder'" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
CC: "'netmod@ietf.org'" <netmod@ietf.org>, "'Babel at IETF'" <babel@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] [babel]    NULL value for  ip-address
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/babel/k6NA36nXy1a8XGqY2l9FzSEYRZA>
Subject: Re: [babel] [netmod]     NULL value for  ip-address
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> Barbara
>=20
> Top posting a slightly different question.
>=20
> Belatedly doing my homework, I see that not all the NULL are uint16.  One=
,
> next-hop, is ip-address.  We have the options discussed for uint16 but co=
uld also
> use zero (or some other value) to mean NULL.  Zero is of course the way t=
he
> default is commonly represented.
>=20
> How is this handled in TR-181?  How would you like it handled in YANG?
>=20
> Tom Petch

Hi Tom,
In discussion with Mahesh, he has indicated preference for union with a "nu=
ll" enumeration to handle the uint16 cases. He's also indicated he would pr=
efer to do that for the ip-address.
I see the YANG ip-address type is a union of ipv4-address and ipv6-address =
types, both of which are strings.
In BBF, there is the IPAddress datatype which is a string(45) with IPv4 and=
 IPv6 formats allowed. There are also IPv4Address and IPv6Address datatypes=
 that are defined as derivatives of the IPAddress datatype. An empty string=
 is used for "unspecified or inapplicable addresses". Strings, unlike ints,=
 have the luxury of being empty.=20
I'm perfectly fine with Mahesh's choice to use the union with a "null" enum=
 in all cases. It seems like a good solution.=20
Thx,
Barbara
=20
> From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of tom petch
> <ietfc@btconnect.com>
> Sent: 15 September 2021 10:04
>=20
> From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4l=
der
> <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
> Sent: 15 September 2021 00:53
>=20
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 01:01:11AM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> > > If BBF already
> > > defined to use -1, so be it.
> >
> > That works for me and is consistent with the information model in 9046.
> >
> > What I find not so great is the side effect of going from uint16 to int=
32.
> >
> > I don't see a big difference between
> > Optional-uint16 =3D uint16 / -1
> > and
> > Optional-uint16 =3D uint16 / empty
> >
> > I do not like
> >
> > Optional-uint16 =3D int32
>=20
> YANG leaves the bits business to the encodings. In YANG, you can of
> course use
>=20
>    type int32 { range -1 | 0..65535 }
>=20
> and then its left to the encodings. Im XML/JSON, -1 is 16 bits and
> 65535 is 40 bits - and the name of the leaf is likely worse. I am too
> lazy to lookup what the CBOR encoding would do with the range...
>=20
> <tp>
>=20
> I am with Juergen here, and in a previous post, that if that is the way i=
t is done in
> BBF, then that is a compelling reason to do the same.
>=20
> Also, you can create a typedef for it, in one place in the model with a
> description, both in the YANG and in the body of the I-D, and then use th=
at type
> in all the places that it applies, which, for me, makes for a clearer, ea=
sier to
> understand model.
>=20
> I suggested boolean but agree that it is clumsy, not quite right (althoug=
h I have
> seen it somewhere).  I suggested choice/case because that is what others =
do but
> as before, following BBF is a more compelling argument.
>=20
> It also addresses the problem of access control making it a challenge to =
know
> what is going on.  The one leaf, the one object, you get it or you do not=
.  Simple!
>=20
> And if you want to save bits, then YANG is not for you; the design aim wa=
s text
> that anyone could read anywhere; if you want to save bits, then you need =
a
> compact binary representation:-)
>=20
> Tom Petch
> (who is on European time)
>=20
>   > > The alternative is to not
>=20
> instantiate the leaf if there is no value
> > > and to accept that a client can't tell the difference between 'there
> > > is no value' and 'the value has been suppressed by authorization'.
> >
> > Interesting.  I wasn't aware that this cannot be distinguished in YANG.
>=20
> I have to correct what I wrote. Its the leaf that is suppressed, not
> the value.
>=20
> In XML, if <foo/> does not exist, the client gets nothing. If <foo/>
> does exist (and it's value is empty in this example) and authorization
> rules say 'don't tell the client', the client gets nothing. A client
> not getting <foo/> can't decide whether there is no <foo/> because
> <foo/> does not exist or authorization prevented access to <foo/>.
>=20
> Authorization is not part of YANG. NACM started as an extension to
> NETCONF in order to control access to data. Initially the acronym NACM
> expanded to the 'NETCONF Access Control Model', RFC 6536.  The revised
> NACM also works with RESTCONF (and likely other protocols) and hence
> the acronym now expands to the 'Network Configuration Access Control
> Model', RFC 8341.
>=20
> > But an "empty" would be present if it is chosen, no?
>=20
> You grant or restrict access to <foo/> and it does not matter what
> type <foo/> has or which value <foo/> has (if it is a leaf) or whether
> <foo/> is the root of a deeply nested tree (if it is a container).  If
> a client has no permissions to read <foo/>, then <foo/> is silently
> omitted.
>=20
> Things are different if a client attempts to create/write/delete
> <foo/>, in this case the client will get an explicit authorization
> failure error. For the details, see RFC 8341.
>=20
> /js
>=20
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.=
jacobs-
> university.de/__;!!BhdT!0lzj-
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>=20
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