Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160...
Dave Taht <dave@taht.net> Thu, 29 November 2018 06:12 UTC
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From: Dave Taht <dave@taht.net>
To: Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk>
Cc: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, babel-users@lists.alioth.debian.org, Barbara Stark <bs7652@att.com>, babel@ietf.org
References: <CAA93jw5fHRm21yEJsabiiOF1ZP7Zh3M_gEgRo0imBOpRGhf0qA@mail.gmail.com> <87in0koun6.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87in0kx98o.fsf@toke.dk> <CAA93jw5gaYgyUX-ABX156_TnFX25Sy5SLyuRgd28fMLfRW4UHA@mail.gmail.com> <871s78x7z0.fsf@toke.dk> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DF44154@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <87pnurwo5e.fsf@toke.dk> <CAPDSy+5QDu_kW-f=JWO1cPJJnDwDNpVwxwVC9SxfcE5+EOMpRg@mail.gmail.com> <87o9a9v3c6.fsf@toke.dk> <CAPDSy+6M9+-cVXwzv1NZ0ju7DSO5h15hE9W1+XFpabNoh-V=0Q@mail.gmail.com> <87wooxt0s4.fsf@toke.dk>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:12:33 -0800
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Subject: Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160...
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Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> writes: > David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com> writes: > >>> >>> >>> Why not? If it's not MTI you risk the case where you get to pick between >>> "good performance on weak devices" and "interoperability with RFC-only >>> implementations". >>> >> >> Where are these "RFC-only implementations" of Babel? > > Anyone who does a from-scratch implementation from the RFC, without > being part of the working group process, or looking at the existing > implementations. > >> Remember the IETF does not have a protocol police, MTI is purely >> guidance. Implementors build what they (or their customers) need for >> their use-case. Implementors will add Blake if they need it, not based >> on whether it's MTI or not. It is generally my experience that anything that's a MAY or SHOULD... doesn't get implemented. RIPEMD is an artifact of the original hmac RFC. > > If it's MTI, they can't claim compliance with the RFC until it's in > there. So the "we need this box checked" type of product development > will benefit from this; and while sure, theoretically MTI is a hint, > it's a pretty strong one... > >> Lastly, remember that this is a security solution, so you do NOT want >> to interoperate with a future theoretical implementation, because that >> will not have the keys. Adding any new node in the network will >> require a provisioning step, and that step ensures the new node >> supports the required features. Upgrading any old node to an alternate algorithm is considerably more difficult. 2 HMAC algorithms with a different design history is comforting. > > You can usually control the config, but not necessarily the features > implemented by the device... > > -Toke > > _______________________________________________ > Babel-users mailing list > Babel-users@alioth-lists.debian.net > https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/babel-users
- [babel] rather than ripemd160... Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] rather than ripemd160... Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- [babel] HMAC and MTI [was: rather than ripemd160.… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] HMAC and MTI [was: rather than ripemd… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [babel] HMAC and MTI [was: rather than ripemd… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was ripemd) Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] HMAC and MTI [was: rather than ripemd… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Mahesh Jethanandani
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... David Schinazi
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] HMAC Key rotation key f… David Schinazi
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... David Schinazi
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- [babel] DTLS and hmac co-existence Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] DTLS and hmac co-existe… David Schinazi
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] HMAC Key rotation key f… Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] DTLS and hmac co-existe… Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] HMAC Key rotation key f… Ted Lemon
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Markus Stenberg
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] rather than ripemd160... Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- [babel] Blake2S, blake2B or neither? [was: rather… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] Blake2S, blake2B or neither? [was: ra… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] Blake2S, blake2B or neither? [was: ra… Markus Stenberg
- Re: [babel] Blake2S, blake2B or neither? [was: ra… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] Blake2S, blake2B or neither? [was: ra… Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
- Re: [babel] Blake2S, blake2B or neither? [was: ra… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] Blake2S, blake2B or nei… Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] [Babel-users] HMAC Key rotation key f… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Dave Taht
- Re: [babel] HMAC Key rotation key format (was rip… Markus Stenberg