Re: [Banana] Charter
"Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com> Mon, 17 July 2017 15:13 UTC
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From: "Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "banana@ietf.org" <banana@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Banana] Charter
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:13:01 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/banana/1vvSb6kXuUw77aQFhuHF5aG09cE>
Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter
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Also on the encapsulation we probably need to look for options and see what would be the recommended choice. In NVO3 they spent quite a bit of time on this to decide what to do and recommend something based on what we have available in IETF. If I hear GRE as a proposal it is very NAT unfriendly and the solution need to work across multiple providers, so this is an important consideration. On 17/07/2017, 17:07, "Banana on behalf of Alexandre Petrescu" <banana-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: Mic: for the encapsulation methods. IP encapsulation can mean to add another IP header similar to the original, or to add another header like a Routing Header, or to add another non-IP header. There are many encapsulation methods at IETF and some other outside of IETF (e.g. GTP at 3GPP). People also work new encapsulation methods at IETF like "skinny encap" in 6man WG. There could be a means between BANANA Local box and BANANA Remote box to negotiate that method of "encapsulation", and maybe default to some value such as "Generic Encapsulaiton" Alex Le 17/07/2017 à 16:54, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit : > Mic: you want the Banana configuration protocol to also communicate the > IP Prefixes of the internal link (i.e. the IP prefix of the "internal" > link, or the IP prefix on the home links) between the Banana boxes. > > Overall, the BANANA signalling protocol should communicate the following: > - the IP addresses of the BANANA Local box (DSL box) and of the BANANA > Remote box > - the IP addresses of the virtual interfaces (if any) situated on the > BANANA Local and BANANA Remote > - maybe the prefix lengths of these addresses > - the IP Prefixes of the link(s) behind the BANANA local (home network), > because you want the BANANA Local box to serve a network, it's not > just for itself. > > It's not sufficient in the charter to just say "IP Prefixes". > > Alex > > Le 26/05/2017 à 17:26, Brian Trammell (IETF) a écrit : >> +1 to "banana box" is fine, but perhaps since in my milieu 90% of the >> time is spent looking at boxes on whiteboards and 10% of the time is >> spent messing around with experimental infrastructure... most of which >> runs on VM images we call >> >> ( +2 to "banana box" because it is much more satisfying in bikeshed >> discussions to ask "what color should the banana box be?" ) >> >> Cheers, >> >> B >> >> >> >>> On 26 May 2017, at 16:46, Margaret Wasserman <margaretw42@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> The charter is not a protocol specification. We used the term >>> "BANANA box" specifically to avoid specifying whether it was a >>> service or a function, a router or a proxy, a piece of hardware or >>> software, etc. I was picturing a "box" in the sense of the "boxes >>> and arrows" in an architectural diagram. A "box" that, in turn, >>> contains a BANANA signaling protocol and a BANANA encapsulation. >>> >>> Presumably in each of the "encapsulations", the BANANA Box will have >>> a more specific name like "GRE tunnel endpoint", or "MPTCP proxy", etc. >>> >>> Personally I consider a GRE tunnel endpoint to perform a >>> decapsulation _function_, while an MPTCP proxy provides a proxy >>> _service_. So, in my lexicon (which may not match yours), neither >>> "service" nor "function" covers all of the possibilities. >>> >>> Margaret >>> >>>> On May 26, 2017, at 9:09 AM, Jordan Melzer <Jordan.Melzer@telus.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> "Function" means an activity or purpose of an object. It's used >>>> widely outside of computing and networking (eg, biology and >>>> medicine). One can make reasonable sentences with the word >>>> function. Eg: "The gateway may perform the BANANA function in >>>> addition to its other duties." "The brain is responsible for any >>>> number of vital physiological functions." >>>> >>>> "Box" means a container with a flat bottom. Computer servers have >>>> sometimes been called boxes because they are shaped like boxes and >>>> many operating systems end in "X", making for nice ear-worms: eg VAX >>>> box, UNIX box, Linux box. Similarly, we are only having this >>>> discussion because BANANA box sounds good. If there weren't a "B" >>>> in BANANA, nobody would want to use BANANA box. Box makes no sense >>>> -- one thinks of a yellow box with bananas inside it -- but it is >>>> fun to say. If we're good with BANANA, though, it's hard to argue >>>> that "box" is the problem! >>>> >>>> I don't really care what anyone calls it. As long as there is >>>> CMT-SCTP or some other mostly-baked solution hidden somewhere in the >>>> pile of bananas, I'm good. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Banana [mailto:banana-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Flinck, >>>> Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) >>>> Sent: May 26, 2017 07:23 AM >>>> To: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> >>>> Cc: Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com>; banana@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones >>>> >>>> I disagree. This term is all over in the IETF documents. It is not >>>> limited to any particular wg as such. >>>> Please have a look at for example: >>>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-opsawg-service-model-explained-05 >>>> >>>> Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7665#page-15 >>>> >>>> and the whole set of documents from the sfc wg. >>>> >>>> Problem Statement: Overlays for Network Virtualization uses term >>>> functionality, not "boxes" >>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7364.txt >>>> Overlay gateway functionality could be combined with other network >>>> functionality into a network device that implements the overlay >>>> functionality and then forwards traffic between other internal >>>> components that implement functionality such as full router service, >>>> load balancing, firewall support, VPN gateway, etc. >>>> >>>> Can you show the otherwise? >>>> >>>> - Hannu >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Juliusz Chroboczek [mailto:jch@irif.fr] >>>> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 11:54 AM >>>> To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com> >>>> Cc: Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com>; banana@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones >>>> >>>>>> I agree, the specific term "function" is specific to a fairly >>>>>> specific community. >>>> >>>>> Well, the specific community seems to be networking community. Don't >>>>> you agree? >>>> >>>> No, it's very specific to a certain culture. Other cultures would >>>> use different terms -- the Iron Age "Seven Layers" culture would say >>>> "BANANA Service", the Broze Age "Internet" culture would say "BANANA >>>> Protocol", while the Neolithic "ARPANET" culture would say "BANANA >>>> Program". >>>> >>>> -- Juliusz >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Banana mailing list >>>> Banana@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Banana mailing list >>> Banana@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Banana mailing list >> Banana@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana >> > > _______________________________________________ > Banana mailing list > Banana@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana > _______________________________________________ Banana mailing list Banana@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Dave Dolson
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones philip.eardley
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Dave Dolson
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Philipp S. Tiesel
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones pierrick.seite
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter mrcullen42
- Re: [Banana] Charter mrcullen42
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Banana] Charter HeidemannC
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Tommy Pauly
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter philip.eardley
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Florin Baboescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Joerg Deutschmann
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope