Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones

["Brian Trammell (IETF)" <[e-mail]>]

+1 to "banana box" is fine, but perhaps since in my milieu 90% of the time is spent looking at boxes on whiteboards and 10% of the time is spent messing around with experimental infrastructure... most of which runs on VM images we call

( +2 to "banana box" because it is much more satisfying in bikeshed discussions to ask "what color should the banana box be?" )

Cheers,

B



> On 26 May 2017, at 16:46, Margaret Wasserman <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> The charter is not a protocol specification.  We used the term "BANANA box" specifically to avoid specifying whether it was a service or a function, a router or a proxy, a piece of hardware or software, etc.  I was picturing a "box" in the sense of the "boxes and arrows" in an architectural diagram.  A "box" that, in turn, contains a BANANA signaling protocol and a BANANA encapsulation.
> 
> Presumably in each of the "encapsulations", the BANANA Box will have a more specific name like "GRE tunnel endpoint", or "MPTCP proxy", etc.
> 
> Personally I consider a GRE tunnel endpoint to perform a decapsulation _function_, while an MPTCP proxy provides a proxy _service_. So, in my lexicon (which may not match yours), neither "service" nor "function" covers all of the possibilities.
> 
> Margaret
> 
>> On May 26, 2017, at 9:09 AM, Jordan Melzer <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>> "Function" means an activity or purpose of an object.  It's used widely outside of computing and networking (eg, biology and medicine).  One can make reasonable sentences with the word function.  Eg: "The gateway may perform the BANANA function in addition to its other duties."  "The brain is responsible for any number of vital physiological functions."
>> 
>> "Box" means a container with a flat bottom.  Computer servers have sometimes been called boxes because they are shaped like boxes and many operating systems end in "X", making for nice ear-worms: eg VAX box, UNIX box, Linux box.  Similarly, we are only having this discussion because BANANA box sounds good.  If there weren't a "B" in BANANA, nobody would want to use BANANA box.  Box makes no sense -- one thinks of a yellow box with bananas inside it -- but it is fun to say.  If we're good with BANANA, though, it's hard to argue that "box" is the problem!
>> 
>> I don't really care what anyone calls it.  As long as there is CMT-SCTP or some other mostly-baked solution hidden somewhere in the pile of bananas, I'm good.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Banana [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
>> Sent: May 26, 2017 07:23 AM
>> To: Juliusz Chroboczek <[e-mail]>
>> Cc: Margaret Cullen <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones
>> 
>> I disagree. This term is all over in the IETF documents. It is not limited to any particular wg as such.
>> Please have a look at for example:
>> 
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-opsawg-service-model-explained-05
>> 
>> Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7665#page-15
>> 
>> and the whole set of documents from the sfc wg.
>> 
>> Problem Statement: Overlays for Network Virtualization uses term functionality, not "boxes"
>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7364.txt
>> Overlay gateway functionality could be combined with other network
>>  functionality into a network device that implements the overlay
>>  functionality and then forwards traffic between other internal
>>  components that implement functionality such as full router service,
>>  load balancing, firewall support, VPN gateway, etc.
>> 
>> Can you show the otherwise?
>> 
>> - Hannu
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Juliusz Chroboczek [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 11:54 AM
>> To: Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) <[e-mail]>
>> Cc: Margaret Cullen <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones
>> 
>>>> I agree, the specific term "function" is specific to a fairly
>>>> specific community.
>> 
>>> Well, the specific community seems to be networking community. Don't
>>> you agree?
>> 
>> No, it's very specific to a certain culture.  Other cultures would use different terms -- the Iron Age "Seven Layers" culture would say "BANANA Service", the Broze Age "Internet" culture would say "BANANA Protocol", while the Neolithic "ARPANET" culture would say "BANANA Program".
>> 
>> -- Juliusz
>> 
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