Re: [bfcpbis] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Mon, 03 December 2018 14:34 UTC

Return-Path: <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81767130E19 for <bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 06:34:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.761
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.761 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=SgILI2Fm; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=BJbxxx0u
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aXK7P1iIPUkP for <bfcpbis@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 06:34:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDC1E130E06 for <bfcpbis@ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 06:34:00 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1543847609; x=1546439609; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6KZwhgXS34qdTfHTE+FdzkLySsyelMG6p6qWvN5+j7Y=; b=SgILI2Fm7VeRcD1aDPXQg6XrMzU7k0h+qR6bw6WJQ2yLo9AAHAOv19izqtNuju/g OJDacge3V/rtcXa6DoHENOt62Al9aVoiVgYPoFmwCwv1/7odA90XukheLCNjmhJA rz6kszEK7Jh2s53kBxIA3c8rF8m9uxL32nDLeq5fCfk=;
X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-8d8849e000002747-17-5c053eb99f37
Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.118]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 6F.8F.10055.9BE350C5; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 15:33:29 +0100 (CET)
Received: from ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.165) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 15:33:25 +0100
Received: from EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 15:33:25 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=6KZwhgXS34qdTfHTE+FdzkLySsyelMG6p6qWvN5+j7Y=; b=BJbxxx0u8L0VI+GylrwumE7VkG0PRsZClZ040OSPGc0DoRXUPjtLpUKun7jeA/7SKO83VIN99/F/vwnPJPffurWxfMpxhLdfzkwL15+ZBypcWWvJI3Hr5bfo36200YxK4dQ2uzJ8HUCMAs7Ih3lta+DrKi6CtGgfNjGKeQ1CtFg=
Received: from AM6PR07MB5621.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.91.14) by AM6PR07MB5381.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.199.214) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1404.8; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 14:33:25 +0000
Received: from AM6PR07MB5621.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a5dd:4302:feec:e113]) by AM6PR07MB5621.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a5dd:4302:feec:e113%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1382.020; Mon, 3 Dec 2018 14:33:24 +0000
From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
CC: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>, "bfcpbis@ietf.org" <bfcpbis@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis@ietf.org>, "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" <bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHUa88W6JiP244TpE+r6Xm76vXltKVsNJ+AgAA3lACAAP70gP//5JCAgAAkfAA=
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 14:33:24 +0000
Message-ID: <41F47CD9-01AC-4865-B511-FABDF455395F@ericsson.com>
References: <154040901414.6834.17243795717657341259.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8032FEDB-0F35-4CCA-A0E7-BE86AEC0CBD8@ericsson.com> <CABcZeBP0pB7YZwz2Hm=ZJf4HBMC_nJ_M4bD=xbFto9iM8dfU+g@mail.gmail.com> <E3F4852A-F79E-48AC-A153-60B8C1A3443B@ericsson.com> <CABcZeBPo6o-TjFGXvJ-EfKke30z6=ue5KrSNgTAZYCu=ABD+2g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBPo6o-TjFGXvJ-EfKke30z6=ue5KrSNgTAZYCu=ABD+2g@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.13.0.181109
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [89.166.49.243]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM6PR07MB5381; 6:2NYwTsfRpouxRvX8JAehkrJSxORzxikl+02Sr2rPUoAruM7scn/wUVT9XsBlqM1q04YMrQFWcbAqov6yOFiCzJuQgxlcvcgIoudfU1n0n5KblPhP6RTuHT6QACiDBmThr3Su7KJRNw69J68FUZLGD/hJ6bMDFHrE6+IHASa+7KLG8PhM1dUWPm1M7gs2tdfb+wvVkt8Xt/H28iQj65wfxE45v0rbcwpDsW9fBRF8szyT0LZKDGeAFBXqM8FMpcTB6uxxQNpvIhyqsfQM3WjqP7Gaue6nwupiAXE2eW+msRbQ2aJeBozoDzIO2IULPUwDhTSNW+HH6zl2Xc/gQa8ozFOIaz4fhJ/+ecf9fHvVCzdCgUiOJqR14UgwSLJC09iqGEgU9PdMNE4ChkM7ugxcjrL9oa4zaKqKX584E3Iovndjgxh3L9JBV+ueVLTzsDjWizRcfa4JyUB8j71wDJ+OMw==; 5:hoyWH/nW+CivozEESN/SiWDmZnmz2hO0i6I8CVspnnJsg8c/yUNwBfhOYSWeo7w6y2s+t8/PQQ0nJkN88wBrgT4024iJX6DMjHeNr+3Ajshc8WM36T6+MSciDWqJ9MkubbJ4ZvUzcCIJ+i53S/5Fg0CJ5nGwMJo+ZUfOoKz3AHo=; 7:DDvwNjGdO3nJbe7go4WSt2O4NC+axuuw/0F1MQqBJjo5UlyukrB6cHuJWXPlpZeuXMNxyWMeX8qksFOMy1e/mTQTMQLRdgApBOxXpsy/kAYGwQr4GBJ3+Msytm0n8ERyaiYPfqtUeV+xtFALz7NRDg==
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4e9a6772-b15a-469b-a74c-08d6592c4881
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390098)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600074)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:AM6PR07MB5381;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB5381:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM6PR07MB5381F5D6AC8D77A7D58FCA6093AE0@AM6PR07MB5381.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(3002001)(3231455)(999002)(944501493)(52105112)(93006095)(93001095)(148016)(149066)(150057)(6041310)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562045)(201708071742011)(7699051)(76991095); SRVR:AM6PR07MB5381; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM6PR07MB5381;
x-forefront-prvs: 08756AC3C8
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(366004)(136003)(199004)(189003)(76176011)(14454004)(256004)(102836004)(26005)(33656002)(81166006)(186003)(25786009)(81156014)(6506007)(316002)(4326008)(8676002)(93886005)(54906003)(36756003)(446003)(478600001)(229853002)(6486002)(58126008)(6512007)(97736004)(6436002)(6116002)(71190400001)(53936002)(71200400001)(44832011)(39060400002)(476003)(2616005)(486006)(11346002)(6246003)(66066001)(3846002)(86362001)(6916009)(2906002)(8936002)(83716004)(105586002)(82746002)(106356001)(5660300001)(7736002)(99286004)(68736007)(305945005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM6PR07MB5381; H:AM6PR07MB5621.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: E/hJ6/uI6YErleIPTWAlGfNHrzIlmx+ypHqbMnX5hNjS8E05ok6dki/oIm1vm5Kdolp9qVUZp/eU6obirswFv6W3CvGid2mm9ZS2cYoFy/XgJ2Qy2UMmwsZSEbmG8zGXjbXxfQ8rk5/ZQ7TGdDVjONOW/xzPE/SOBMK/c/guVqSSQo/Z2n7mf47QdFzFt3AOReMjoJ4vpLna2SBY9ezETQv4ud41IC0piJWqRLpJ9HFL0xIpxJInb6wypCkGn+x/n2GdnZLljR7JAJ3c0QOLJZANIcBgiEGtQkMIKx5qxkRBRIDENr5NVuyXfzteQ1/WdDfz3KsgepeqYivQjwokj7UdOXa26aX5yikJgf/gECg=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <8DB61E97F483934999F81A988DAA256A@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4e9a6772-b15a-469b-a74c-08d6592c4881
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Dec 2018 14:33:24.8662 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5381
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SbUhTYRTHe+69266jxdN0eTQUt0TJ8qUVsSLszQ8jMOqDICbo0OtL6qa7 JlkI+2KWU1LUcEKZpTWGqVmhRjGVcin4FlMhKppb5AtKy/J1jLzeBX37/c//nP9zDjw0KTUL gulcbTGj12ryFUIxZUruKYnuixekxtXaglTullVK5e14T6iM5iWRyrw4JlI1empJ1YrVSp4R qvuavojUra0bhLrOeYu8RKaIT2Uy+bkljD42Pl2cc2++DhWaA6531rURBuTyr0R+NOBjMPVq WFCJxLQUv0Ow4hnziT8I+tvcJC8eEzA5NEFxgsI1JHx1m0S8U0vA2JNqIS8cCBpnF7YDaFqI VWD0HuIeCcBhsOn5sDNN4g0EzZ4JxBn+OAvsVZ+FfFM2rFvsJM8XoX3EtsMUDoe+SpuQy5Tg 0/C7/zBXlmIbAYbJTI798GWYGbNTHCO8D9ZG2gmOSRwIn1zNBH8ohtY34yTPMph3egUcy3As lI/cFfGzGrBavvl65DC67PDNhsDHZiPieVoIpjtXeI6Gnw0NJLca4ER44SzjTgQ8gaB2Zc6X EwWrU49EPOdBVfmQLzMULNUOqgYpm/5btWk7isQHofN1LF9WQ+90D+JZDvVGh4hjCd4LwyYX 9RAJLEjGMixbkK1UxjD63AyW1WljtExxN9r+PwMvt072ooEfZwcRppFit6TsuCBVKtCUsKUF gwhoUhEgKSyiUqWSTE3pDUavS9Nfy2fYQbSfphSBknNZqhQpztYUM3kMU8jo/7kE7RdsQLcL 0hZtCQ9+UbZNt+R84tGKoeXk3UULb42F7V3OUas8NLZiOaQjwRDn8c5VyDzSxLwa3VXzLm9r QAJ1s+15Fb1Ht/40Sa7fbI+cv+Bfw4Q/k3U5xr9HhNVH3M85oVzdajugjVQXR7QsVc9Y59M1 g912asHtsswGja5lJMWvKSg2R3MkitSzmr/awvpQOwMAAA==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bfcpbis/L0psnYmcePotJmUdpdOeoD7i3xI>
Subject: Re: [bfcpbis] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: bfcpbis@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: BFCPBIS working group discussion list <bfcpbis.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bfcpbis>, <mailto:bfcpbis-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bfcpbis/>
List-Post: <mailto:bfcpbis@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bfcpbis-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bfcpbis>, <mailto:bfcpbis-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 14:34:03 -0000

Hi,

---

>>>>> S 5.5.
>>>>>      'bfcpver' attribute in offers and answers.  The attribute value, if
>>>>>      present, MUST be in accordance with the definition of the Version
>>>>>      field in [I-D.ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis].  If the attribute is not
>>>>>      present, endpoints MUST assume a default value in accordance with
>>>>>      [I-D.ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4582bis]: when used over a reliable transport
>>>>>      the default attribute value is "1", and when used over an unreliable
>>>>
>>>> Just for clarity: UDP over TURN-TCP is an unreliable transport, right?
>>>
>>> I would assume so, but I guess that question is not BFCP specific?
>>>
>>> Sorry, what I mean is "does BFCP count it as an unreliable transport". I agree it is unreliable.
>>
>> Do you think we need to add some text about it?
>>
>> Related to that, if ICE is used, if both UDP and TCP candidates are offered, endpoints might not know what kind of transport will eventually 
>> be selected. Perhaps there should be a note about that?
>>
>> Something like:
>>
>> "Note: When ICE is used, where the candidates represent both reliable and unreliable transports, the ICE process will determine what type of transport will eventually be used."
>
> Well, ICE can flip-flop the transport, so I think if you have anything other than ICE-TCP (which is to say anyone who uses ICE) then you have to assume it's unreliable

My point was that when you send the offer, and set the 'bfcpver' attribute value, if you use ICE you may not yet know whether the transport will eventually be reliable or unreliable (if you offer candidates for both reliable and unreliable transports).

I guess we could say that the attribute value must match the transport indicated in the 'm' line. That way things will be correct if the remote peer does not support ICE.

Regards,

Christer