Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt
"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com> Wed, 03 August 2022 14:34 UTC
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn" <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>, "tte@cs.fau.de" <tte@cs.fau.de>
CC: "huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt
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Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 14:34:46 +0000
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References: <202208031610020423221@zte.com.cn> <981A4743-4D0F-4FAD-B156-F818D5BFEDD5@cisco.com> <BY5PR11MB433772FEDD897D9027EC2588C19C9@BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <18F1F356-5620-4A81-8E2F-C1CAAD5AFAF6@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt
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Acee - My comment was only on the two IS-IS drafts: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis draft-zwx-bier-te-isis-extensions Your comment was apparently regarding all the IGP drafts. Fewer drafts is better in this case - and if BIER WG wants to follow the LSR model and combine IS-IS/OSPF/OSPFv3 into a single draft I am happy to support that. But even if BIER wants to maintain drafts per protocol, I see no reason to have multiple drafts per protocol for this functionality. I also support Acee's suggestion to Include BGP-LS support in the same draft. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 7:27 AM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; > zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn; tte@cs.fau.de > Cc: huaimo.chen@futurewei.com; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > <ginsberg@cisco.com>; bier@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > > > On 8/3/22, 10:06 AM, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > I tend to agree w Acee's comment. > Two drafts seems excessive here. > > Actually there are 3 (IS-IS, OSPF, OSPFv3), not even counting the inevitable > BGP-LS draft. > > One point I made before on the cut and paste between drafts. In > OSPF/OSPFv3, Sub-TLVs are referred to as Sub-TLVs no matter what their > level of nesting. If we would have adopted the sub-sub....-TLV notation, we > have many levels of nesting for the CCAMP TE LSAs for Optical technologies. > > Thanks, > Acee > > If the argument is that you want to keep the IS-IS MPLS related stuff in a > separate draft, I point out that RFC 8401 did NOT do that. > > Les > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) > > Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 4:10 AM > > To: zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn; tte@cs.fau.de > > Cc: huaimo.chen@futurewei.com; > ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; > > bier@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > > > Hi Sandy, > > Why didn't you put all the IGP extensions in the same draft in different > > sections? It is basically the same two Sub-TLVs with different IANA > > considerations. When you consolidate, can you also add the BGP-LS > > extension? > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > On 8/3/22, 4:11 AM, "BIER on behalf of zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn" <bier- > > bounces@ietf.org on behalf of zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn> wrote: > > > > Hi Toerless, > > The BIFT-ID advertisement as you said in the email, has been defined in > > these drafts: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zwx-bier-te-isis-extensions/ > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zwx-bier-te-ospf-extensions/ > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zwx-bier-te-ospfv3-extensions/ > > And these drafts was presented in IETF114 BIER WG meeting. > > Looking forward for your comments and suggestions. > > Best regards, > > Sandy > > > > ------------------Original------------------ > > From: ToerlessEckert <tte@cs.fau.de> > > To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; > > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;bier@ietf.org <bier@ietf.org>; > > Date: 2022年08月03日 12:05 > > Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > Hey folks > > I am trying to wrap my head around how one would use these IS-IS > > extensions for BIER-TE, > > and what if any of such semantic information might help the > document... > > The way i assume this extension to be used is that some poor > > system/operator assigns BIER-TE > > bits and configures the actual BIER-TE BIFT entries with > forward_connected > > entries to > > the neighbors. Similarily to how the same poor system/operator would > > configure interface > > IP addresses on routers. This IS-IS work does not help to eliminate any > of > > this initial provisioning. [Yes/No] > > The way the IS-IS kicks in is to disseminate the information from those > > forward_connected BIER-TE > > BIFT entries across the domain, so that for example ingres-PE could > > calculate BIER-TE paths through the > > topology. [Yes/No]. > > If i am on the right track, then let me continue: > > The first detail is that these IS-IS entries will seemingly have some > > elements from rfc5303 > > that identify the interface and/or neighbor. So those need to match > what > > would be found in > > the BIFT. I am not sure if it is obvious to every implementer how to > achieve > > that without > > additional guidance. For example i guess we ALSO need to have the IS- > IS > > signaling for the > > label ranges for the SD/SI in BIER. Have we checked thart we simply > > should/can use them also > > for the SD that we use for BIER-TE ? I hope so, but i can not remember > the > > discussion. > > Likewise for BIER-TE over L2 (not MPLS), we have the dependency > against > > picking one particular > > bift-id encoding, and the "i don't know which" signaling we may have to > > support it (could > > of course be all manual configured). > > Yes, this is just dependencies to make a deployment work, not > necessarily > > something an > > IGP specialist wants to see in an IGP draft/RFC, but i hope we can have > this > > more > > holistic discussion here ;-) > > So, then RFC5305 has all those wonderful adjacency parameters to help > for > > example ingres > > PE CSPF calculations. And i remember those from RSVP-TE days. But > now > > the ISIS draft > > proposal introduces the BAR/IPA parameters, and i have never seen > those > > being mentioned > > or used in conjunction with TE in general or CSPF specifically. So it > would be > > great > > to have at least one example of how to use PAR/IPA be explained > here. If > > we can not > > construct such examples, then BIER/IPA may be leftovers from the IS- > IS > > encodings for > > BIER, where of course there is no CSPF and the like... > > Next question: Would it be possible to express with these IS-IS option > the > > forward_routed() > > I think it would be great if we would build the IS-IS extensions such that > > that is possible, > > because forward_routed entries can be a great help to get along with > the > > available bits. > > I also would need to get my head around those IS-IS pseudonodes... if > > anyone has an example, > > that would be great. > > Thanks so much! > > Toerless > > On Wed, Aug 03, 2022 at 02:58:53AM +0000, Huaimo Chen wrote: > > > Hi Les, > > > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable comments. > > > I have addressed them in the updated draft (uploaded). > > > My responses are also inline below with [HC]. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Huaimo > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg > > (ginsberg) > > > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 4:59 PM > > > To: bier@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > > > > > Some pedantic comments on this draft: > > > > > > For the new BIER-TE sub-TLV: > > > > > > 1)The relevant registry has been renamed to be "IS-IS Sub-TLVs for > TLVs > > Advertising Neighbor Information". Please use this new name. > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > > w.iana.org%2Fassignments%2Fisis-tlv-codepoints%2Fisis-tlv- > > codepoints.xhtml%23isis-tlv-codepoints-advertising-neighbor- > > > information&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5b > > > bd38c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc% > > > 7C1%7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi > > > MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300 > > > 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ybC6zOJkG1sRe%2FQosV23MElysXHkg7jnHS70N > > %2Bf7bpE%3D&reserved=0 > > > [HC]: I have renamed it as you suggested. > > > > > > 2)Please do NOT insert padding to keep content aligned on a 4 byte > > boundary. This may be useful for OSPF, but it is not for IS-IS as TLVs are > NOT > > aligned inside an LSP. All you are doing is wasting space - which is precious > in > > IS-IS given the limited LSP space. > > > [HC]: Removed padding. > > > > > > 3)You say in Section 2: > > > > > > "Note that if each of BitPosition > > > and DrEndBitPosition uses more than 2 octets, we use 4 or more > octets > > > for each of them." > > > > > > I do not see how the receiver of the sub-TLV could tell whether the 2 > > octet or 4 octet encoding was sent as you have nothing that specifies the > > length of these fields. > > > You can't use the total length of the sub-TLV as it could include > optional > > sub-sub-TLVs. > > > > > > ?? > > > [HC]: Deleted the quoted text. > > > > > > 4)In IANA section, I do not know why you specified "N" for TLVs 23 > and > > 223. > > > While RFC 5311 (which defines these TLVs) is not popular, if there was > an > > implementation, I see no reason why it should be invalid to send the > BIER-TE > > info in these TLVs. > > > [HC]: Changed "n" to "y" for TLVs 23 and 223. > > > > > > Thanx. > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet- > > drafts@ietf.org > > > > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 12:13 PM > > > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > > Cc: bier@ietf.org > > > > Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > > > This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG > of > > the IETF. > > > > > > > > Title : IS-IS Extensions for BIER-TE > > > > Authors : Huaimo Chen > > > > Mike McBride > > > > Aijun Wang > > > > Gyan S. Mishra > > > > Yanhe Fan > > > > Lei Liu > > > > Xufeng Liu > > > > Filename : draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > > > Pages : 7 > > > > Date : 2022-07-29 > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > > This document describes IS-IS extensions for distributing > > > > BitPositions configured on the links in "Bit Index Explicit > > > > Replication Traffic Engineering" (BIER-TE) domain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata > > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-bier-te- > > > isis%2F&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38 > > > c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1 > > > %7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC > > > 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000% > > > 7C%7C%7C&sdata=99ojCa2m%2BTeMk0OfxeifsmVrhvNaK7jQJp0fu0syR > > N8%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata > > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-bier-te-isis- > > > 01&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256 > > > 024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0 > > > %7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA > > > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C > > > %7C&sdata=%2F8qaH0ZvQBAfGM4WIre0jpcI6As7wjXjdqbxOfdGHxo%3 > > D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > > w.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-bier-te-isis- > > > 01&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256 > > > 024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0 > > > %7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA > > > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C > > > %7C&sdata=L77o0dGWGuSwL9vSm1Durc56Fl5zONoDq%2F8ij12v9lc%3D > > &reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at > rsync.ietf.org::internet- > > drafts > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > BIER mailing list > > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > > > w.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbier&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.c > > > hen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff > > > 2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnkno > > > wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > > > haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=em5K2lvVvXwkSl > > ye1egSX%2BgtdfeqDArSsAycQJTPArI%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BIER mailing list > > > BIER@ietf.org > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > > > w.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbier&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.c > > > hen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff > > > 2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnkno > > > wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > > > haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=em5K2lvVvXwkSl > > ye1egSX%2BgtdfeqDArSsAycQJTPArI%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > -- > > --- > > tte@cs.fau.de > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
- [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… zhang.zheng
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… zhang.zheng
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert