Re: [Bier] A comment about draft-xzlnp-bier-ioam

[Greg Mirsky <[e-mail]>]

Tony, et al,
couple more notes that, I hope, are useful:

   - putting telemetry information into the trigger data packet has an
   inherent limitation of the length of the packet (yes, that is another way
   to name the fragmentation);
   - transporting telemetry outside of the trigger packet can be done
   out-of-band, i.e., using a different, and probably lower, CoS. Thus impact
   on the data traffic and possible skewing of metrics is lesser compared
   toE2E or HbH IOAM Trace options (inflating data packers with IOAM data is
   definitely affects the network). Telemetry information, in my opinion, is
   valuable, useful but not as critical as client data. Telemetry information
   transported within data packets is more likely to cause congestion for that
   flow than it being transported in separate but with lower CoS packets.

In my opinion, operators that know their network and choose to transport
telemetry information within data packets are free to do so. But I believe
that our documents must be explicit about the limitations of this mode and
the alternative methods that have certain advantages.

Regards,
Greg

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 3:17 AM Tony Przygienda <[e-mail]> wrote:

> only advantage I see is that you can put telemetry on the data frame
> rather than sending separate frame so it's somewhat more efficient but
> especially you measure the data plane wihtout skewing it by telemetry (or
> skewing it less than separate frames). That has pluses and minuses, biggest
> minus I see fragmentation and the discussion about multicast vs. unicast
> OAM. depending WHERE you want your OAM putting it on a frame may be a good
> or a bad idea since the data frame determines replication
>
> -- tony
>
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 2:59 PM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran=
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> I have concern about so many options for the same functionality.
>>
>>
>> Especially, there’s already IOAM encapsulation for MPLS and IPv6. Why we need another encapsulation in BIER layer?
>> As far as I understand, BIER will always be used with MPLS or IPv6.
>>
>> Tianran
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Sent from WeLink
>> *发件人： *xiao.min2<[e-mail]>
>> *收件人： *zzhang=40juniper.net<zzhang=[e-mail]>
>> *抄送： *bier<[e-mail]>
>> *主题： *Re: [Bier] A comment about draft-xzlnp-bier-ioam
>> *时间： *2022-03-19 14:33:01
>>
>> Hi Jeffrey,
>>
>> Thank you for bringing it up to our attention.
>> I do agree your GDF draft provides a third option on how to encapsulate
>> IOAM over BIER, which is different from the two options already described
>> and compared in this BIER-IOAM draft.
>> To my understanding, the initial and main motivation to introduce GDF is
>> to provide a fragmentation header for MPLS/BIER etc, just like IPv6 FH.
>> With that in mind, one possible way to push this "Encapsulating IOAM in
>> BIER" work forward is to add the third option into BIER-IOAM draft for
>> comparison, that makes it focused and easy to follow.
>> What's your opinion?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Xiao Min
>>
>> ------------------原始邮件------------------
>> 发件人：Jeffrey(Zhaohui)Zhang
>> 收件人：'[e-mail]';[e-mail];
>> 日 期 ：2022年03月18日 20:56
>> 主 题 ：[Bier] A comment about draft-xzlnp-bier-ioam
>> Hi,
>> For IOAM data in BIER, I want to point out that we should use a generic
>> header format that can be used for BIER/MPLS/IPv6. The same extension
>> mechanism can be used for other purposes like fragmentation/security, etc..
>> This was discussed in
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-zzhang-intarea-generic-delivery-functions-02.txt,
>> and was mentioned in slide #6 of
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/slides-112-bier-03-bier-slicing-and-differentiation-00
>> in IETF112 BIER session.
>> Thanks.
>> Jeffrey
>> Juniper Business Use Only
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