Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC

"Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> Tue, 15 June 2021 02:46 UTC

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From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
CC: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, zhang.zheng <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:46:41 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/DyYS9PnWlTwHGNE33K7ysWvC3bo>
Subject: Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC
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This time replying to all 😊

Thanks for the explanation, sure I can assist.

Regards
Hooman


From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 10:22 AM
To: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
Cc: gjshep@gmail.com; zhang.zheng <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>cn>; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC

<individual>

AFAIS the rev should include all the lessons we learned since 8279 was smote ;-)

Initial architecture was written in a very accessible form, alas could have benefited from more rigour. Trade-off taken was to move fast with folks who were largely mind-melted based on long experience in networking & multicast problems and framework which was malleable rather than formalize things into a strict corset readable for less experienced folks. The rigour would benefit us now IMO, especially since lots of work fleshed the details out and newest discussions show that lots of lessons that old-hands in multicast learned are not necessarily obvious. Things like "how do you route underlay?" which led to BAR/IPA discussions or "can you run BIER without an IGP" which led to lots of yang discussions to allow for controller only deployments or even BIER-TE which basically uses BIER to interpret the bitmask completely differently should be codified in 8279bis IMO.

-- tony

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:12 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com<mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg

Just to ensure is the final goal to update 8279 to include bier forwarding with all BIER encapsulation including MPLS, non-MPLS and IPv6 encap? And/Or is it to include bier forwarding over tunnels including mpls, ipv6, for FRR etc… ?

Thanks
Hooman

From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 9:47 AM
To: zhang.zheng <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn<mailto:zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>>
Cc: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC

Thank you, Sandy!

Anyone else willing to help?

Thanks,
Greg
(Chairs)


On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 6:19 AM <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn<mailto:zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>> wrote:
Hi Gerg, Tony,
May I volunteer for the work to help making the description more detailed?
Thank you very much!
Best regards,
Sandy
原始邮件
发件人:gjshep<gjshep@gmail.com<mailto:gjshep@gmail.com>>
收件人:bier<bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>;
日期:2021-06-12 21:05:49
主题:[Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC

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A big "thank you" to all WG members who have worked so hard to get BIER to where it is today. And to no surprise, our work is not done. The following bullet points are from the Chairs' technical summary previously sent to the list:

• BIER encoding is specified in RFC8296
• Alia Atlas: “IANA code-points don’t change.  This is the reason why BIER began as experimental - narrow
        point in hourglass”
• The encoding at the “narrow point of the hourglass” – the forwarding plane –  is the foundation from which
        the rest of the architecture grows.
• This was the position of the IESG and the BIER WG ADs at the time of the original WG Experimental Charter.
• This is admittedly historic/institutional knowledge of those involved in the WG from the beginning. But it is also
        a core tenet of the layered and scalable architecture of the Internet and was erroneously assumed as
        well-understood by the original WG contributors. The WG needs to update the BIER architecture to make this
        responsibility clear for all future contributors.

RFC8279 began as a draft at the very beginning of the WG. It has since been made clear that the authors at that time had assumed the importance of the forwarding plane as the foundation of architecture was well understood by the community at large. That no longer seems to be the case. Additionally, the draft of RFC8279 began before the draft of RFC8296 was complete, and even before the assignment of the IEEE BIER ethertype.

This is a call for volunteers to update RFC8279 to better define BIER at the forwarding plane, and clarify how IETF-standard encapsulation mechanisms can be used to transit BIER packets, while preserving the core tenet of a layered and scalable architecture of the Internet.

If you would like to tackle this update, please reply to this thread.

Thanks,
Greg
(Chairs)
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