Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-frr-02
Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> Wed, 31 March 2021 15:57 UTC
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Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com
From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:56:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CABFReBoshtBk6mXie+__bOJWS0D0WebUJ4ANMvktbU0HySR1sw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
Cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs@ietf.org>, "EXT-zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn" <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-frr-02
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Editor is not Author. On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 7:04 PM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > > > I agree that Jeffery has quite rich experience in BIER WG and participates > in ML discussions actively. However, I still think the answer of “who > should be the author of the document” depends mostly on “who raises the > idea and brings it to IETF”. This is a basic respect for the originality of > the author. > > Of course, if anyone is interested in this topic, he/she could contribute > and co-author the document, when the existing authors would like to. > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > > > > > *From:* BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 31, 2021 12:11 AM > *To:* Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net> > *Cc:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>; BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs@ietf.org>; > EXT-zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>; Huaimo Chen < > huaimo.chen@futurewei.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-frr-02 > > > > I agree with Jeffrey. The two drafts should be merged into a new draft, > which we will then call to adopt. I suggest that the authors of each of the > two docs: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merling-bier-frr-00 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-bier-frr > > > > ..contribute two authors to the merged doc effort, and have Jeffrey > hold the pen as editor/author. > > > > All agreed? > > > > Thanks, > > Greg > > (Chairs) > > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 7:26 PM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang < > zzhang@juniper.net> wrote: > > Shouldn’t it be the other way around – expand/merge first and then adopt? > > > > In fact, the essence of draft-chen is the multiple per-nbr FRR BIFTs, > which I don’t think should be included in the merged draft at all, for the > following problems: > > > > 1. Scaling – we need one extra BIFT for each <neighbor, BIFT>. This > not only means extra memory, but also additional processing overhead > including downloading the tables to the forwarding plane. > 2. If two neighbors fail simultaneously yet both can be protected by a > 3rd neighbor, per-nbr FRR BIFTs can only give protection for one of > the first two neighbors. This is not an unusual situation – you could have > two neighbors reached by the same link or the same line card, and the > link/card fails. > 3. Exactly when to switch back from a per-nbr FRR BIFT to the regular > BIFT? > > > > The draft says the following about #3: > > > > In general, when the routing protocol has re-converged on the new > > topology taking into account the failure of X, the BIRT is re- > > computed using the updated LSDB and the BIFT is re-derived from the > > BIRT. Once the BIFT is installed ready for activation, it is > > activated to forward packets with BIER headers and the FRR-BIFT for X > > is de-activated. > > > > Does that mean for each computation, you need to know and mark which > failed neighbor that it takes care of, so that when the BIFT is sent down > to forwarding plane you can decide if currently used FRR-BIFT can be > switched back to the main BIFT? > > > > Also consider the following: > > > > 1. At moment T you switch to FRR BIFT for nbr X > 2. At moment T+1ms a new BIFT is calculated, which takes care of a > remote failure but not nbr X (nbr X is still considered up in this > calculation) – would you switch FRR BIFT to the newly calculated main BIFT? > If you don’t, the remote failure could lead to packet losses until the new > main BIFT is used. If you do, you only get FRR protection for nbr X for 1ms. > > > > Jeffrey > > > > *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Huaimo Chen > *Sent:* Thursday, March 25, 2021 5:06 PM > *To:* Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>; EXT-zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn < > zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn> > *Cc:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>; BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-frr-02 > > > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Michael, Steffan, Huaimo and Mike met to discuss the merge and we are > in agreement that if draft-chen-bier-frr is adopted we will expand it to > include a framework along with the tunnel and LFA based solutions. > > > > Best Regards, > > Huaimo > ------------------------------ > > *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tony Przygienda < > tonysietf@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 16, 2021 6:08 AM > *To:* zhang.zheng <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn> > *Cc:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>; BIER WG Chairs <bier-chairs@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-frr-02 > > > > +1 > > > > I think it's a good addition within the architecture for the case IGP is > not used for signalling, e.g. when controller or static programming. > > > > The draft must however explain in what scenarios it is used and quote the > according IGP drafts to guarantee loop-free behavior (well, BIER will > tie-break loops but we'll have 1x microloop & possibly not deliver payload > if BIER FRR is not properly computed/intsalled). With that the draft should > also pay attention to how the function is deployed/updated network-wide if > IGP is not present > > > > thanks > > > > -- tony > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 7:41 AM <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn> wrote: > > A 2-week WG adoption call begins for the following draft: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-bier-frr/ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-chen-bier-frr*2F&data=04*7C01*7Chuaimo.chen*40futurewei.com*7C79ac63710b47427a558d08d8e8638df2*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637514861570555970*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000&sdata=DiHvux0ZUYEJru10lVQ4mXvpYx3l8ujGInm7uEjjxTw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TtAnkZJhg9BEJjANzO6CusX7i7eQqvTJHdhaH0qrrPdtcykRPrUybhZeavPA3X4F$> > > Please indicate your support or objection by March 30th, 2021. > > Authors, please respond to the list indicating whether you are aware of > any IPR that applies to this draft. > > Thanks, > > Sandy (As WG secretary, on behalf of Greg/Tony) > > > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > >
- [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-frr-02 zhang.zheng
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gyan Mishra
- [Bier] 答复: WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… qinfengwei
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Aijun Wang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… peng.shaofu
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… peng.shaofu
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Yanhe Fan
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael McBride
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… LEI LIU
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… peng.shaofu
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… duanfanghong
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Xufeng Liu
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… zhangzhe (M)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Steffen Lindner
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Daniel Merling
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael McBride
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael McBride
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… peng.shaofu
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… peng.shaofu
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-bier-f… Michael Menth