Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling

"Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> Fri, 25 January 2019 20:16 UTC

Return-Path: <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB622131060 for <bier@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:16:24 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.464
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.464 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jfUbnUQvHToO for <bier@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:16:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db5eur03on072f.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe0a::72f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46EBC130F09 for <bier@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:16:21 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=CbuKDIXCYnlUaxyqRNBMdB0eXbOHsq4nkNXfAqasdeg=; b=ci80nyKAfZ/Ej53luvc4lgxcF+aANAwun8KlhgD8JPkeYDR2aFXfsz1vuMs39/bwldE/ojMhHn/pmI9V/izeyn41H7jFHRwyM3PLABgLHkVaDcmgz4i8g4NhrlAIDgqCtuKgjrqQS0EmwopyO/0sVcAelET1ACButzNKz0/LVHg=
Received: from DB7PR07MB4745.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.135.136.21) by DB7PR07MB4888.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.123.205) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1558.15; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:16:19 +0000
Received: from DB7PR07MB4745.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7de8:dee2:b6d4:71c0]) by DB7PR07MB4745.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7de8:dee2:b6d4:71c0%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1580.008; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:16:19 +0000
From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
Thread-Index: AQHUtNn4MopnRFarKUKlmyEYyWZkaaXAXCkAgAAJtkA=
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:16:18 +0000
Message-ID: <DB7PR07MB4745FDBAB74969AC700545F0919B0@DB7PR07MB4745.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CABFReBrQj+hMYd7JxuxQ-VbxAgB1SakGgaNcX+rQWNOFJ4hPtg@mail.gmail.com> <CO2PR05MB245537F2CA6097F54B7CC1BED49B0@CO2PR05MB2455.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <CO2PR05MB245537F2CA6097F54B7CC1BED49B0@CO2PR05MB2455.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com;
x-originating-ip: [135.245.20.20]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB7PR07MB4888; 6:JkPX9C/6s4PPejCW2qrvP63jaNgAVGfVHS0WXxlfgqsLnIimNWThuzhFDbkQnBUQdLhC8zBrQ4oaTc4ECqIuW8yZjPoLHhUsFHpZXmrFozJkQKzsFLHnaRZ8TMsbxd9GTx/ELepQhc71H3j4ClszySstEW5tJIBVsK/41EuOjMY41Agj7b7MRRpYo68ixTa3jYeD9gJBOo8nS581U308RvxKBq/jN3PHc6/Gkh92Xihh5u6WWICzCW06Rvj7S9VNlZh7m4hm33qy5VDi0v53hN6oty3wJzJ7OJnKr8SxXQ8dbQYbBl9jx+CRvQ3Nd1fm4d5pXxc/Oihfb+pRRHvOb0K85qwYBKsmJ+1oCPMn4qnQTI0XVKdw6m9UuPRcx3KJEdc3DBX4611KKxiDObVtHw8rgIU38lRWlslRUMlHMtk3AGQxmjDdEKnodtSYX9n9cSYeF/RqNUVqfuo0pweF7Q==; 5:H89tG8Q/pfOrof4ssScxjapGLNj0CtQHgjS9KSQ0H1vYADIJrfMgtpa8V0S9g6jcagVHhftqndP8Fd1/ZfLnCQDJFRvuMWYK3MSsSE6SwrX/eTUpOtphfhOZrtRuUaq9DBu7w2jp1QCcPU3oZdGzkk3hbzdCqbM17TxHYS0scIsl6v4tqsX1aTE1YD/DVyydFtjzc5tDMuAAerJGjxrSEQ==; 7:N/RIQ6ZHzfgXtqNBCZ2CuX8XVpIMYSJZADLCWcY02Xvh10bKfVLid9qYZ8QPb/Q1ycb1/Tg0IZKkBIZgkezQr4ODAeuE1lIrgoSs6TtCnBxy5qb16cNYAwfm3iDGr60A8RvYxKfnSHhGE2pluTQqyA==
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9537f9a4-8f1a-4682-ed1b-08d68301f78b
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600110)(711020)(4605077)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:DB7PR07MB4888;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4888:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB7PR07MB48881D4636F35A6DD9971239919B0@DB7PR07MB4888.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-forefront-prvs: 0928072091
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(376002)(396003)(136003)(52314003)(189003)(199004)(39060400002)(446003)(606006)(26005)(102836004)(229853002)(14454004)(7736002)(71190400001)(110136005)(53546011)(316002)(7696005)(6506007)(2501003)(6436002)(76176011)(476003)(1941001)(106356001)(790700001)(478600001)(71200400001)(486006)(11346002)(186003)(6116002)(68736007)(25786009)(97736004)(105586002)(3846002)(66066001)(8936002)(8676002)(53936002)(81156014)(81166006)(55016002)(9686003)(6306002)(54896002)(966005)(99286004)(236005)(74316002)(2906002)(6246003)(14444005)(256004)(33656002)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB7PR07MB4888; H:DB7PR07MB4745.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Ha/K1zNRECM2Fv/7SUqdBNZg3ZKtJs85N2kamVtumLXfO8/iabNhjI119/I0NJ7CovxFScK7bvaleWfHwlGw9KICWNfC/RUVGnJl0NoTIZja2qgbs6eRgkU83pjGM08QHCxnZPSk81agKYSfY/Hy/XlORpo3XoVrRRaPqcUBlUF91I4mLQJE4XTYpt0UV7KzosxWBMu7M6uJyWTEm162rYf6Ug5PPc40Fmwn5cEEdj9aTiOj+gya+Qzlzi+ienG7RDVGa6c1vinIEzqAylvF3dAafHemPqCZEyVVYsk+sVqL0MXoULNC2wl/lYxSAd32mqYD+N1O2laTFlrWnEIrbODb3/5p/cBwEFYDuos7JtU+JdxBG2+8e8T5vlEXrONoFcsJrc0x1yqXZb4KxI2vwHmjsXyXJX2mssv1ttq0YN0=
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB7PR07MB4745FDBAB74969AC700545F0919B0DB7PR07MB4745eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9537f9a4-8f1a-4682-ed1b-08d68301f78b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Jan 2019 20:16:18.9571 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4888
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/O6fDrPC8AqrX-QHB_lLaWp4rl9I>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling
X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" <bier.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bier>, <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bier/>
List-Post: <mailto:bier@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier>, <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:16:25 -0000

Thanks Jeffrey

Yes we had long discussions on this very useful thankyou!

My 2 cents

1. We need a solution that is generic for all if not most MPLS protocols.
2. Not all cores will have fully mesh BGP, even that I am not against this but it will be restrictive, mLDP PE-CE need BGP fully mesh core also.
3. I still don’t see a issue why a thin layer of generic signaling with refresh timer is not appropriate. The only argument I hear against it is that why not use TLDP ( the protocol we are trying to eliminate)
4. The draft also proposes a SDN solution to mitigate the challenge ( maybe this is the cleanest way to go forward and the most generic) when a BFIR detect that the label mapping message is for a node across BIER domain it will send a PCRept with the info and the SDN controller assigns a BIER domain label and configure the stitching via a PCInit message. Same type of idea for release message…

In short this is a very realistic issue for BIER brown field deployment where portion of the network, like a converge core, needs to be upgraded first.

Regards

Hooman




From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:20 PM
To: gjshep@gmail.com; BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling

There were quite some offline discussions on this, and I don’t think we’re ready to adopt this draft yet.

There are basically three options to signal mLDP over a BIER core:


  1.  RFC7060 mLDP over Targeted sessions
  2.  BGP-MVPN/GTM with mLDP as the PE-CE protocol
  3.  This draft-hj

#1 is already a RFC and can be easily applied to a BIER core.
For #2, RFC6514 already covers mLDP as PE-CE protocol. Now with a BIER core, the only difference is that the provider tunnel is BIER. Although draft-ietf-bier-mvpn talks about (C-S/*,C-G), other than that all the procedures apply to mLDP as PE-CE protocol. All we need to do is to extend GTM RFC7716 (global table multicast with BGP-MVPN) to cover mLDP as the access protocol.

#3 converts hard state LDP label mapping/withdraw into soft state messages carried in BIER. To me that just does not make sense.
One reason given for doing #3 is that operators would not want to run LDP session over the core. I am not yet convinced on that – on the border routers you need to run LDP on the access interfaces anyway, I really don’t see the concern with running targeted session over the core.

Thanks.
Jeffrey

From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shepherd
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 1:15 PM
To: BIER WG <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Bier] Call for adoption: draft-hj-bier-ldp-signaling

Please read and reply to this thread with your vote for/against adoption of:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hj-bier-mldp-signaling/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dhj-2Dbier-2Dmldp-2Dsignaling_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=f7wsLGcfzAWDNS6XNTBZwj_OLAOsZZqdrR2IDAzeZqE&m=qCjzMO_5mJ31uNeQWAfFAtYuXU-SxLW6FZ3F9w1X7HM&s=BQN8YR0amWZvFTVJOYknPuhZFw-UKsOBzXeUYrznkZE&e=>

..as a BIER WG document.

This starts a two week counter.

Thanks,
Chairs
(Shep)