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Wed, 6 Jul 2022 14:07:19 +0000 From: Susan Hares To: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" , "bier@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , Huaimo Chen Thread-Topic: WG adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt (6/22/2022 to 7/6/2022 Thread-Index: AdiGTubEhxPUDLAFQhexPhGq8uHrygAAu1xwAon0P2AAFGFqQAAHxrVgABWUd7A= Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 14:07:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2022-07-06T03:45:03Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=cafd625c-b39d-46e7-b5bc-1ad3b4fdb6b2; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: b9cc0489-9457-4295-b38a-08da5f58da69 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB4108:EE_|MW2NAM12FT039:EE_|MN2PR08MB6269:EE_ X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Untrusted: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IDR, Jeffrey and Huaimo: My understanding from this WG Adoption call with is there is a consensus to= adopt, but there are concerns about putting information in the Tunnel enca= psulation draft (TEA). Please submit the draft as draft-ietf-idr-bier-te-path-00.txt, but it will= probably need a revision after IETF-114. We need to resolve the TEA question and get feedback from Bier chairs. Huiamo, please schedule a discussion with Jeffery and I to discuss the TEA = issues before IETF-114. Cheers, Sue From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2022 11:45 PM To: Susan Hares ; bier@ietf.org; idr@ietf. org ; Huaimo Chen Subject: RE: WG adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt (6/22/= 2022 to 7/6/2022 Hi Sue, The work in this draft is needed, and Huaimo quickly replied and ag= reed with most of my comments, so I suppose it can be quickly updated and a= dopted. One remaining issue needs IDR especially T External (zzhang@juniper.net) Report This Email FAQ GoDaddy Advanced Email Security, Powered by = INKY Hi Sue, The work in this draft is needed, and Huaimo quickly replied and agreed wit= h most of my comments, so I suppose it can be quickly updated and adopted. One remaining issue needs IDR especially TEA (Tunnel Encapsulation Attribut= e) people's opinion - please see my other email in response to Huaimo's ema= il. Thanks. Jeffrey Juniper Business Use Only From: BIER > On Behalf = Of Susan Hares Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2022 9:20 PM To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang >= ; bier@ietf.org; idr@ietf. org >; Huaimo Chen > Subject: Re: [Bier] WG adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt= (6/22/2022 to 7/6/2022 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Jeffrey: It should like you see this as a valuable set of work that should be expand= ed. Do you think it is ready for adoption? Sue From: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2022 10:49 AM To: Susan Hares >; bier@ietf.org; idr@ietf. org >; Hua= imo Chen > Subject: RE: WG adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt (6/22/= 2022 to 7/6/2022 Hi, I have the following comments/questions: I don't think this need/should be BIER-TE specific. It can be used for regu= lar BIER as well - it does not matter if the BitStrings are just for encodi= ng BFERs (as in BIER) or for encoding replication points. "Path BitPositions" would be better named to just "BitString". Even in BIER= -TE it is BitString. Instead of describing three ways of propagating BGP update messages, only o= ne way should be used - don't use NO-ADVERTISE and always use route target = (and once the RT match stop re-advertising). Just let the BGP infrastructur= e takes care of it. Why do we need SI-len, subdomain-id, MT-id, and BIFT-id in the Path BitPosi= tions Sub-TLV? Tunnel-Identifier in the NLRI already has subdomain-id infor= mation. I don't see how SI-len, MT-id and BIFT-id will be used. With subdom= ain-id from the NLRI and the SI-id from the sub-tlv you should have all the= information you need. I am not sure if we should encode Traffic Description Sub-TLVs especially (= source, group) information in the TEA. I can understand encoding color info= rmation in original TEA, but encoding (source, group) information is like e= ncoding prefix information in TEA. Thanks. Jeffrey Juniper Business Use Only From: BIER > On Behalf = Of Susan Hares Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 12:11 PM To: bier@ietf.org Subject: [Bier] FW: WG adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt= (6/22/2022 to 7/6/2022 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Bier WG: IDR has begun an adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt. Since this document specifies BGP mechanisms (an NLRI and additions to the BGP TEA). We welcome your comments on this draft on the IDR thread: (click below to go directly to the mail thread online) https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/tKgu_S5_32_l5YzWfO8481hpRRY/ IDR is focused on operational deployments so we'd also appreciate your input on how this draft might aid or impact BIER deployments. Another avenue of input is to provide feedback directly to the bier chairs. The IDR Chairs will be checking with the bier chairs prior to finalizing the adoption of this attribute. Cheers, Sue Hares (IDR co-chair, document shepherd) From: Susan Hares Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 12:05 PM To: idr@ietf.org Subject: WG adoption call for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt (6/22/2022= to 7/6/2022 This begins a 2 week Adoption call (6/22/2022 to 7/6/2022) for draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path/). This draft provides extensions to BGP to distribute BIER (bit replication traffic/tree) data via BGP using a new NLRI (AFI =3D IPv4 or IPv6, new SAFI) and new options for the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute (TEA). The NLRI includes an RD + Bier Domain tunnel identifier. In your comments, please consider if this draft: 1) Does this draft specify appropriate BGP mechanisms for a controller to distribute bier information? 2) Does this mechanism correctly integrates into a) the BIER architecture (draft-ietf-bier-te-arch) and b) Multicast VPNs (BESS)? 3) Will this technology aid the deployment of Bier multicast forwarding in operational networks? Cheers, Sue --_000_BYAPR08MB48724D94559A33FFE2CA811FB3809BYAPR08MB4872namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IDR,=20Jeffrey=20and=20Huaimo:=20

 

My=20understanding=20from=20this=20WG=20Adoption= =20call=20with=20is=20there=20is=20a=20consensus=20to=20adopt,=20but=20ther= e=20are=20concerns=20about=20putting=20information=20in=20the=20Tunnel=20en= capsulation=20draft=20(TEA).

 

Please=20submit=20the=20draft=20as=20draft-ietf-id= r-bier-te-path-00.txt,=20 but=20it=20will=20probably=20need=20a=20revi= sion=20after=20IETF-114.=20  

We=20need=20to=20resolve=20the=20TEA=20question=20= and=20get=20feedback=20from=20Bier=20chairs.=20 

 

Huiamo,=20please=20schedule=20a=20discussion=20wit= h=20Jeffery=20and=20I=20to=20discuss=20the=20TEA=20issues=20before=20IETF-1= 14. 

 

Cheers,=20Sue=20

 

From:=20Jeffrey=20(Zhaohui)=20Zhang=20<z= zhang@juniper.net>=20
Sent:=20Tuesday,=20July=205,=202022=2011:45=20PM
To:=20Susan=20Hares=20<shares@ndzh.com>;=20bier@ietf.org;=20id= r@ietf.=20org=20<idr@ietf.org>;=20Huaimo=20Chen=20<huaimo.chen@fut= urewei.com>
Subject:=20RE:=20WG=20adoption=20call=20for=20draft-chen-idr-bier-te= -path-04.txt=20(6/22/2022=20to=207/6/2022

 

=  

Hi=20Sue,

 

The=20work=20in=20this=20draft=20is=20needed,=20an= d=20Huaimo=20quickly=20replied=20and=20agreed=20with=20most=20of=20my=20com= ments,=20so=20I=20suppose=20it=20can=20be=20quickly=20updated=20and=20adopt= ed.

One=20remaining=20issue=20needs=20IDR=20especially= =20TEA=20(Tunnel=20Encapsulation=20Attribute)=20people’s=20opinion=20= –=20please=20see=20my=20other=20email=20in=20response=20to=20Huaimo&#= 8217;s=20email.

 

Thanks.

Jeffrey

 

 

Juniper=20Business=20Use=20On= ly

From:=20BIER=20<bier-bounces@ietf.org> On=20Behalf=20Of=20Susan=20Hares
Sent:=20Tuesday,=20July=205,=202022=209:20=20PM
To:=20Jeffrey=20(Zhaohui)=20Zhang=20<zzhang@juniper.net>; bier@ietf.org;=20idr@ietf.=20org=20&= lt;idr@ietf.org>;=20Huaimo=20Chen= =20<huaimo.chen@futurewei= .com>
Subject:=20Re:=20[Bier]=20WG=20adoption=20call=20for=20draft-chen-id= r-bier-te-path-04.txt=20(6/22/2022=20to=207/6/2022

 

= [External=20Email.=20Be=20cautious=20of=20content]

 

Jeffrey:=20

 

It=20should=20like=20you=20see=20this=20as=20a=20v= aluable=20set=20of=20work=20that=20should=20be=20expanded.  =20Do= =20you=20think=20it=20is=20ready=20for=20adoption?

 

Sue=20

 

From:=20Jeffrey=20(Zhaohui)=20Zhang=20<<= a=20href=3D"mailto:zzhang@juniper.net">zzhang@juniper.net>
Sent:=20Tuesday,=20July=205,=202022=2010:49=20AM
To:=20Susan=20Hares=20<share= s@ndzh.com>;=20 bier@ietf.org;=20idr@ietf.=20org=20<idr@ietf.org>;=20Huaimo=20Chen=20<huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Subject:=20RE:=20WG=20adoption=20call=20for=20draft-chen-idr-bier-te= -path-04.txt=20(6/22/2022=20to=207/6/2022

 

 

Hi,

 

I=20have=20the=20following=20comments/questions:

 

I=20don’t=20think=20this=20need/should=20be= =20BIER-TE=20specific.=20It=20can=20be=20used=20for=20regular=20BIER=20as= =20well=20–=20it=20does=20not=20matter=20if=20the=20BitStrings=20are= =20just=20for=20encoding=20BFERs=20(as=20in=20BIER)=20or=20for=20encoding= =20replication=20points.

 

“Path=20BitPositions”=20would=20be=20b= etter=20named=20to=20just=20“BitString”.=20Even=20in=20BIER-TE= =20it=20is=20BitString.

 

Instead=20of=20describing=20three=20ways=20of=20pr= opagating=20BGP=20update=20messages,=20only=20one=20way=20should=20be=20use= d=20–=20don’t=20use=20NO-ADVERTISE=20and=20always=20use=20route= =20target=20(and=20once=20the=20RT=20match=20stop=20re-advertising).=20Just= =20let=20the=20BGP=20infrastructure=20takes=20care =20of=20it.

 

Why=20do=20we=20need=20SI-len,=20subdomain-id,=20M= T-id,=20and=20BIFT-id=20in=20the=20Path=20BitPositions=20Sub-TLV?=20Tunnel-= Identifier=20in=20the=20NLRI=20already=20has=20subdomain-id=20information.= =20I=20don’t=20see=20how=20SI-len,=20MT-id=20and=20BIFT-id=20will=20b= e=20used.=20With=20subdomain-id=20from =20the=20NLRI=20and=20the=20SI-id=20from=20the=20sub-tlv=20you=20should=20h= ave=20all=20the=20information=20you=20need.

 

I=20am=20not=20sure=20if=20we=20should=20encode=20= Traffic=20Description=20Sub-TLVs=20especially=20(source,=20group)=20informa= tion=20in=20the=20TEA.=20I=20can=20understand=20encoding=20color=20informat= ion=20in=20original=20TEA,=20but=20encoding=20(source,=20group)=20informati= on=20is=20like=20encoding=20prefix =20information=20in=20TEA.

 

Thanks.
Jeffrey

 

 

 

Juniper=20Business=20Use=20On= ly

From:=20BIER=20<bier-bounces@ietf.org> On=20Behalf=20Of=20Susan=20Hares
Sent:=20Wednesday,=20June=2022,=202022=2012:11=20PM
To:=20bier@ietf.org
Subject:=20[Bier]=20FW:=20WG=20adoption=20call=20for=20draft-chen-id= r-bier-te-path-04.txt=20(6/22/2022=20to=207/6/2022

 

= [External=20Email.=20Be=20cautious=20of=20content]

 

Bier=20WG:=20

 

IDR=20has=20begun=20an=20adoption=20call=20for=20d= raft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt.

Since=20this=20document=20specifies=20BGP=20mechan= isms=20

(an=20NLRI=20and=20additions=20to=20the=20BGP=20TE= A). =20

 

We=20welcome=20your=20comments=20on=20this=20draft= =20on=20the=20IDR=20thread:=20

(click=20below=20to=20go=20directly=20to=20the=20m= ail=20thread=20online)

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/tKgu_S5_32_l5YzWfO8481hp= RRY/

 

IDR=20is=20focused=20on=20operational=20deployment= s=20so=20we’d=20also=20

appreciate=20your=20input=20on=20how=20this=20draf= t=20might=20aid=20or=20impact=20

BIER=20deployments.=20

 

Another=20avenue=20of=20input=20is=20to=20provide= =20feedback=20directly=20to=20the

bier=20chairs.  =20The=20IDR=20Chairs=20= will=20be=20checking=20with=20the=20bier=20chairs

prior=20to=20finalizing=20the=20adoption=20of=20th= is=20attribute.=20

 

Cheers,=20

Sue=20Hares=20

(IDR=20co-chair,=20document=20shepherd)=

 

From:=20Susan=20Hares=20
Sent:=20Wednesday,=20June=2022,=202022=2012:05=20PM
To:=20idr@ietf.org
Subject:=20WG=20adoption=20call=20for=20draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-= 04.txt=20(6/22/2022=20to=207/6/2022

 

This=20begins=20a=202=20week=20Adoption=20call=20(= 6/22/2022=20to=207/6/2022)=20

for=20draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path-04.txt

(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-idr-bier-te-path/).

 

This=20draft=20provides=20extensions=20to=20BGP=20= to=20distribute=20BIER

(bit=20replication=20traffic/tree)=20data=20via=20= BGP=20using=20a=20

new=20NLRI=20(AFI=20=3D=20IPv4=20or=20IPv6,=20new= =20SAFI)=20and=20

new=20options=20for=20the=20Tunnel=20Encapsulation= =20Attribute=20(TEA).=20

The=20NLRI=20includes=20an=20RD=20+=20Bier=20Domai= n=20tunnel=20identifier.=20

 

In=20your=20comments,=20please=20consider=20if=20t= his=20draft:=20

 

1)=20Does=20this=20draft=20specify=20appropriate= =20BGP=20mechanisms=20for=20

a=20controller=20to=20distribute=20bier=20informat= ion?=20 

 

2)=20Does=20this=20mechanism=20correctly=20integra= tes=20into=20

a)=20the=20BIER=20architecture=20(draft-ietf-bier-= te-arch)=20and=20

b)=20Multicast=20VPNs=20(BESS)?=20

 

3)=20Will=20this=20technology=20aid=20the=20deploy= ment=20of=20

Bier=20multicast=20forwarding=20in=20operational= =20networks?=20

 

Cheers,=20Sue=20

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