Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering
"Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> Wed, 24 January 2018 00:43 UTC
Return-Path: <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5784912D890 for <bier@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:43:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.92
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jnRRz8-IunXo for <bier@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:43:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db5eur01on0100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.2.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AD05127241 for <bier@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:43:00 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=IWAL9kd0PsoqPD5EECkABLQiyYH1eeehTmnVLcT1Im4=; b=gybHJAGuqGFceFZ9qXD+fQDh+X4WPVAvr+vNrk5iWqzbOlq2IoPC9hQl8xLUBmB9yp5FFlXCRIFh8pwp7zZIAj4bLKCG4DnCexNc9dJ9LQH31YJKpmlHeZOiqP3Wkv1to428oLbD5NFsu5g3LucanMpyBvOAqIZEeirSKGoEJro=
Received: from HE1PR0701MB2058.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.167.190.10) by HE1PR0701MB3020.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.93.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.444.5; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:42:56 +0000
Received: from HE1PR0701MB2058.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b5ea:d26a:cccc:e00e]) by HE1PR0701MB2058.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b5ea:d26a:cccc:e00e%13]) with mapi id 15.20.0444.013; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:42:56 +0000
From: "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] BIER rechartering
Thread-Index: AQHTlJ+e1k84fV7r8U6krhbfy6oNR6OCtWOA
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:42:56 +0000
Message-ID: <B9800CBE-2810-46F9-B802-8823AE769699@nokia.com>
References: <CAG4d1rdCysU+qnb=9U9iaZ+UefudWYDmz=mNPSfhDPuWNQQHVw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAG4d1rdCysU+qnb=9U9iaZ+UefudWYDmz=mNPSfhDPuWNQQHVw@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.9.0.180116
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=andrew.dolganow@nokia.com;
x-originating-ip: [135.245.121.17]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR0701MB3020; 7:m4mNCO3U3sliZ6OqtD9xxG6yi0Yv7qNnwp59olbF33b1Lv7e+LngQw2rCf8L2Xg65IizYz4A3izbvOBzQ4L4+6OmmtcG1YRgya+RyDPJyFMTSg6yBZa/iqdq1AjTnd4bjHEcsp1/WcDd3BJkBBGd94gVlkSsPB0DQDVds+3cJT01SUmAp5tz9Y5YuIr47lpMDbtVpi4eYsWiRbiy8zM/CDUH0GissxS8/8ypdsLBWwXdlmcyNqFLaTB3Tx681Pg0
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4e5d0b65-948e-4b45-271a-08d562c3693e
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(48565401081)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(5600026)(4604075)(3008032)(2017052603307)(7193020); SRVR:HE1PR0701MB3020;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR0701MB3020:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <HE1PR0701MB3020BDCAA9886CCB663BB53AE5E20@HE1PR0701MB3020.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(28532068793085)(60795455431006)(278428928389397)(120809045254105)(85827821059158)(21748063052155);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040501)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(10201501046)(3231023)(11241501184)(806099)(2400081)(944501161)(6055026)(6041288)(20161123564045)(20161123558120)(20161123562045)(20161123560045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(6072148)(201708071742011); SRVR:HE1PR0701MB3020; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HE1PR0701MB3020;
x-forefront-prvs: 056297E276
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39380400002)(346002)(376002)(396003)(39860400002)(366004)(199004)(189003)(790700001)(2501003)(7736002)(6436002)(2900100001)(3846002)(6116002)(6486002)(105586002)(606006)(316002)(26005)(68736007)(8936002)(6246003)(39060400002)(81166006)(81156014)(14454004)(97736004)(83716003)(8676002)(86362001)(36756003)(25786009)(83506002)(3280700002)(33656002)(966005)(3660700001)(2950100002)(478600001)(102836004)(561944003)(66066001)(82746002)(59450400001)(2906002)(54896002)(5660300001)(6306002)(6506007)(6512007)(229853002)(58126008)(110136005)(236005)(76176011)(5250100002)(53936002)(106356001)(53546011)(99286004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR0701MB3020; H:HE1PR0701MB2058.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: /iJ9ijNkzko37DfskX2MM2Z2BjMmB1t9TdoM14FX5laczuxo6PPd9NP0M6IgwmTam8vh8UTFYa/qjBE+tQcR9hIwbTvQ7NRHxdyCwkBkfW2y0VAaAjyOtWQpye/QUHJm
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B9800CBE281046F9B8028823AE769699nokiacom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4e5d0b65-948e-4b45-271a-08d562c3693e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jan 2018 00:42:56.5056 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB3020
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg>
Subject: Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering
X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" <bier.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bier>, <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bier/>
List-Post: <mailto:bier@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier>, <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:43:04 -0000
Inline prefixed with ad> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 10:12 AM To: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org> Subject: [Bier] BIER rechartering As discussed, I have been working with Tony and Greg on the planned rechartering for the BIER WG. You can find this version at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-bier/. Please send comments. I want this to make the February 8 IESG telechat. ================================ The BIER (Bit Index Explicit Replication) Working Group has defined an architecture [RFC 8279] for multicast forwarding that uses an encapsulation [RFC 8296] that can be used on MPLS or Ethernet transport. The BIER-WG is now chartered to produce Standards Track RFCs and to update or do a Status Change for those RFCs previously published as Experimental (RFC 8279, RFC 8296, etc.). First and primarily, the BIER-WG will complete its work on: 1) Transition Mechanisms: The WG will describe how BIER can be partially deployed and still provide useful functionality. A minimum of the necessary mechanisms to support incremental deployment and/or managing different BIER mask-length compatibility may be defined. Operation of BIER in non-congruent topologies, i.e. topologies where not all routers are BIER capable can also be addressed. In addition to tunneling solutions, other approaches to make BIER deployable in such environments can be worked on. Each such mechanism must include an applicability statement to differentiate its necessity from other proposed mechanisms. Ad> I think we want to slightly change that to be less limiting. Not crazy about: can be partially deployed and still provide useful functionality. “ would rather say “can be introduced in existing multicast networks to shift multicast delivery either e2e or in part of a network from mechanisms like PIM, ng-MVPN, etc.” 2) Applicability Statements: The WG will describe how BIER can be applied to multicast L3VPN and to EVPN. This draft will describe what mechanism is used to communicate the group membership between the ingress router and the egress routers, what scalability considerations may arise, and any deployment considerations. The WG will work on additional applicability statements, as needed, describing how BIER can be applied. 3) Use Case: The WG may produce one use-case document that clearly articulates the potential benefits of BIER for different use-cases. Ad>quite limiting. Why not just say: Use Case: The WG may continue to augment existing or produce new use-case document(s) that articulate the potential benefits of BIER for different use-cases. 4) Manageability and OAM: The WG will describe how OAM will work in a BIER domain and what simplifications BIER offers for managing the multicast traffic. A strong preference will be given to extensions to existing protocols. Ad> “A strong preference will be given to extensions to existing protocols” – is this not a general IETF rule? 5) Management models: The WG may work on YANG models and, if needed, MIB modules to support common manageability. Ad> Why not say “The WG will work on defining management APIs to support BIER manageability.” I think we need a management model(s) but really MIB (unless we want to be last WG that defines SNMP) 6) IGP extensions. When a BIER domain falls within a "link state IGP" network, the information needed to set up the BIER forwarding tables (e.g., the mapping between a given bit position and a given egress router) may be carried in the link state advertisements of the IGP. The link state advertisements may also carry other information related to forwarding (e.g., the IGP may support multiple topologies, in which case it may be necessary to advertise which topologies are to be used for BIER forwarding). Any necessary extensions to the IGP will be specified by the WG as Standards Track, in cooperation with the LSR WG. Ad> Can we say “in co-operation with IETF WGs chartered with IGP protocol ownership” instead of “in cooperation with the LSR WG”. DO not want to re-charter in case we change/modify/merge/evolve other WGs. The BIER-WG is additionally chartered to start Standards Track work on: 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood applicability. Such functionality may focus on assuming software or slow-path support first. Ad> I do not think we should limit unnecessarily the solution or open doors for things that are possible (anything can be done in S/W) but potentially of little value. SO if someone brings a proposal for slow-path BIER we will evaluate on usefulness to use case being solved. 8) BIER Traffic Engineering: An architecture for BIER-TE is defined in draft-ietf-bier-te-arch; associated fundamental technology is included. 9) Extensions to support BIER in multi-area IGP Deployments Ad> should we just merge this with 6 above? Andrew The BIER-WG is chartered to investigate the following topics. The adoption of any Standards Track drafts will require a milestone approved by the responsible Area Director. 10) Novel uses of the BIER bitmap: There are a variety of proposals for additional algorithms and other uses of the BIER bitmap and encapsulation beyond BIER and BIER-TE. 11) BIER between Autonomous Domains: With understood applicability, these scenarios may be investigated. 12) Use of BIER in Controller-based Architectures: How might controllers be used to provide calculated BIRTs and/or BIFTs tables to BFRs? 13) Applicability of BIER to Applications: The WG may advise on the applicability of BIER to various applications. The BIER-WG will coordinate with several different working groups and must include the relevant other working groups during working group last call on the relevant drafts. BIER-WG will coordinate with MPLS-WG on the associated MPLS-based OAM mechanisms. BIER-WG will coordinate with LSR-WG on extensions to flood BIER-related information. BIER-WG will advise BABEL-WG on Babel extensions to support BIER. BIER-WG will coordinate with BESS-WG and IDR-WG on the applicability of existing BGP-based mechanisms for providing multicast group membership information. BIER-WG will coordinate with PIM-WG on the applicability of and extensions to PIM, IGMP, and MLD to support BIER operations and transition; BIER-WG will work directly on the applicability statements, as needed. ================================= Thanks, Alia
- [Bier] BIER rechartering Alia Atlas
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Tony Przygienda
- [Bier] 回复: BIER rechartering 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Bier] 回复: BIER rechartering Tony Przygienda
- [Bier] 回复: 回复: BIER rechartering 徐小虎(义先)
- Re: [Bier] 回复: BIER rechartering Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] 回复: BIER rechartering Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Alia Atlas
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Purkayastha, Debashish
- Re: [Bier] BIER rechartering Alia Atlas