Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Mon, 22 July 2019 21:07 UTC
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:07:19 -0400
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To: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Cc: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "bier-ads@ietf.org" <bier-ads@ietf.org>, "bier-chairs@ietf.org" <bier-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda
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I only meant natively - as opposed to over MPLS or Ethernet. There were a couple drafts discussing options at the time. Of course, Alvaro has the current state and interpretation! Regards, Alia On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:05 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you for your input. The fact that draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements > is an adopted WG document should be confirmation that this work is being > seriously fconsidered by the WG regardless of current charter > interpretation, just as I've outlined in email here more than once. Seems > the only remaining concern is the pace of the IETF WG process. Sorry. I too > wish things move more quickly. I look forward to further discussions on > Thurs. > > Cheers, > Greg > (chairs) > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:40 PM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> > wrote: > >> Dear Greg, >> >> 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be >> standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood >> applicability. >> >> As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER >> is no longer native v6 >> [XJR] >> Maybe the "natively" in the charter is subjective. Let's think about >> "BIER in IPv6". >> BIERv6 is BIER in IPv6 extension header, and BIERin6 is BIER in IPv6 >> payload. >> Which one do you think is more "native" ? say one is 50% native and one >> is 60% native? >> It's clear when this charter text was discussing, we want to have a >> useful BIER IPv6, instead of limiting ourselves by "native" or not. >> This can be refered to >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Zd8mcNc_UoHBrxza7iar8jMjYJg >> This conclusion above will unnecessarily kill the work we have done on >> BIERv6 so far, and discourage the work later. >> >> Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/ >> [XJR] >> I have read the minutes many times.. Maybe we went wrong to judge native >> or not from this. For example here is one of the discussion about native: >> Because bier uses its own header, no matter how you do it, we cannot call >> it ipv6 native. >> From this, the "native" does not really exist. How do we explain the >> charter text then ? >> >> If these solutions are out of scope of our charter, we can propose >> changing the charter to include this >> work at that time, as necessary. >> [XJR] >> I don't think the BIERv6 is out of our current charter. >> Quite the contrary, it is the reason why we gether here, thinking, >> discussion, arguing and producing. >> The current charter is not a far thing, just a year approximately. >> Maybe the current AD Alvaro can give us the guidence. >> >> Thanks >> Jingrong >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Greg Shepherd [gjshep@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:30 >> *To:* Xiejingrong >> *Cc:* BIER WG; bier-chairs@ietf.org; bier-ads@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda >> >> Jingrong, >> >> The agenda stands as a reflection of the decisions of the WG according to >> our procedures and charter. From the charter: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/bier/about/ >> >> 7) BIER in IPv6 : A mechanism to use BIER natively in IPv6 may be >> standardized if coordinated with the 6MAN WG and with understood >> applicability. >> >> As of now, the WG has decided that modifying the v6 header to encode BIER >> is no longer native v6 >> >> Please review the minutes from IETF 104 in Prague: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-104-bier/ >> >> There was a productive discussion in the room. The consensus in the room, >> which was confirmed from the list, was that this work will focus on the >> problem statement first. If one or more unique use-cases are presented that >> require a new encoding or encapsulation then we can address solutions to >> these use-case in the associated drafts. If these solutions are out of >> scope of our charter, we can propose changing the charter to include this >> work at that time, as necessary. >> >> I'm sorry the WG is not moving as fast as you like. I agree with you. :) >> We have more than a handful of active drafts ready for WGLC and we can't >> get volunteers for Doc Shepherds. Some WGLC email responses were so >> depressingly low it can't be considered much of a consensus. But it's what >> we have and where we are at this time. >> >> I look forward getting deeper into the use-cases draft this week. Thanks >> for you help and patience. >> >> - Shep >> (chairs) >> >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 5:40 AM Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Greg & Chairs, >>> I have sent my concerns days ago but haven't got any response, so I >>> have to use a new title on the mail. >>> I request now to have a *guaranteed* time slot about 10 minutes for >>> <draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-03> draft, and give up the requested >>> time slot for the other 3 drafts. >>> I have the following reasons: >>> (1) It is the time now to discuss encapsulation proposals, to help >>> making the <bier-ipv6-requirements> more clear. >>> (2) the <bierin6> draft is on the agenda with guaranteed time. Obviously >>> it is an encapsulation draft. It even has many open questions on the list >>> which I think is serious. >>> (3) as a cmpromise, I ack to give up the time slot request on other 3 >>> drafts. Does that work for you ? >>> (4) I have given many comments on the drafts, which I think can shorten >>> the presentation time. Maybe each for 2 minutes? >>> >>> Please let me know your thoughts. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Jingrong >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* BIER [bier-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Greg Shepherd [ >>> gjshep@gmail.com] >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 17, 2019 23:08 >>> *To:* BIER WG >>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] BIER WG, Call For Agenda, Montreal IETF 105 >>> >>> Just updated the agenda:. >>> >>> IETF 105, Montreal >>> BIER WG Agenda >>> >>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs >>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang >>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli >>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen >>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky >>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert >>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas >>> draft-zhang-bier-bierin6-03 >>> draft-zhang-bier-source-protection-00, 15min, Sandy Zhang >>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 15min, Mike McBride >>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above >>> - requirements draft. >>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02 >>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00 >>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01 >>> draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00 >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I just uploaded the first draft agenda. Here it is for your review >>>> (below). Please send corrects here, and slides to me directly (unicast to >>>> this gmail address). >>>> >>>> IETF 105, Montreal >>>> BIER WG Agenda >>>> >>>> WG Status Update 15mins, chairs >>>> draft-zzhang-bier-tether-02, 15 minutes, Jeffrey Zhang >>>> draft-hb-bier-mldp-signaling-over-bier, 10 mins Hooman Bidgoli >>>> draft-ietf-bier-multicast-http-response-01, 10 mins, Dirk Trossen >>>> draft-ietf-bier-pmmm-oam 10min, Greg Mirsky >>>> draft-ietf-bier-te-arch 10min, Toerless Eckert >>>> draft-ietf-bier-mld-02, 10min, Stig Venaas >>>> draft-ietf-bier-ipv6-requirements, 10min, Mike McBride >>>> - additional drafts to be discussed if room decides, based on the above >>>> - requirements draft. >>>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-encapsulation-02 >>>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-isis-extension-00 >>>> draft-xie-bier-ipv6-mvpn-01 >>>> draft-geng-bier-ipv6-inter-domain-00 >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 12:37 PM Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Please send agenda items with title, draft, speaker name, and >>>>> requested time to this thread. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Shep >>>>> (chairs) >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier >
- [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Agenda Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Age… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Age… Xiejingrong
- Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Age… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Age… Alia Atlas
- Re: [Bier] Comments on Montreal IETF 105 BIER Age… Xiejingrong