Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC

Tony,
Well said. Thanks.

Greg

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:22 AM Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> <individual>
>
> AFAIS the rev should include all the lessons we learned since 8279 was
> smote ;-)
>
> Initial architecture was written in a very accessible form, alas could
> have benefited from more rigour. Trade-off taken was to move fast with
> folks who were largely mind-melted based on long experience in networking &
> multicast problems and framework which was malleable rather than formalize
> things into a strict corset readable for less experienced folks. The rigour
> would benefit us now IMO, especially since lots of work fleshed the details
> out and newest discussions show that lots of lessons that old-hands in
> multicast learned are not necessarily obvious. Things like "how do you
> route underlay?" which led to BAR/IPA discussions or "can you run BIER
> without an IGP" which led to lots of yang discussions to allow for
> controller only deployments or even BIER-TE which basically uses BIER to
> interpret the bitmask completely differently should be codified in 8279bis
> IMO.
>
> -- tony
>
> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:12 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <
> hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to ensure is the final goal to update 8279 to include bier
>> forwarding with all BIER encapsulation including MPLS, non-MPLS and IPv6
>> encap? And/Or is it to include bier forwarding over tunnels including mpls,
>> ipv6, for FRR etc… ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Hooman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 14, 2021 9:47 AM
>> *To:* zhang.zheng <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>
>> *Cc:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Sandy!
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone else willing to help?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> (Chairs)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 6:19 AM <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gerg, Tony,
>> May I volunteer for the work to help making the description more
>> detailed?
>> Thank you very much!
>> Best regards,
>> Sandy
>>
>> 原始邮件
>>
>> *发件人**:*gjshep<gjshep@gmail.com>
>>
>> *收件人**:*bier<bier@ietf.org>;
>>
>> *日期**:*2021-06-12 21:05:49
>>
>> *主**题**:[Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC*
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>> A big "thank you" to all WG members who have worked so hard to get BIER
>> to where it is today. And to no surprise, our work is not done. The
>> following bullet points are from the Chairs' technical summary previously
>> sent to the list:
>>
>>
>>
>> • BIER encoding is specified in RFC8296
>>
>> • Alia Atlas: “IANA code-points don’t change.  This is the reason why
>> BIER began as experimental - narrow
>>
>>         point in hourglass”
>>
>> • The encoding at the “narrow point of the hourglass” – the forwarding
>> plane –  is the foundation from which
>>
>>         the rest of the architecture grows.
>>
>> • This was the position of the IESG and the BIER WG ADs at the time of
>> the original WG Experimental Charter.
>>
>> • This is admittedly historic/institutional knowledge of those involved
>> in the WG from the beginning. But it is also
>>
>>         a core tenet of the layered and scalable architecture of the
>> Internet and was erroneously assumed as
>>
>>         well-understood by the original WG contributors. The WG needs to
>> update the BIER architecture to make this
>>
>>         responsibility clear for all future contributors.
>>
>>
>>
>> RFC8279 began as a draft at the very beginning of the WG. It has since
>> been made clear that the authors at that time had assumed the importance of
>> the forwarding plane as the foundation of architecture was well understood
>> by the community at large. That no longer seems to be the case.
>> Additionally, the draft of RFC8279 began before the draft of RFC8296 was
>> complete, and even before the assignment of the IEEE BIER ethertype.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a call for volunteers to update RFC8279 to better define BIER at
>> the forwarding plane, and clarify how IETF-standard encapsulation
>> mechanisms can be used to transit BIER packets, while preserving the core
>> tenet of a layered and scalable architecture of the Internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you would like to tackle this update, please reply to this thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> (Chairs)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>