Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC

Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> Mon, 14 June 2021 14:22 UTC

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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:22:11 +0200
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To: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
Cc: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "zhang.zheng" <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC
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<individual>

AFAIS the rev should include all the lessons we learned since 8279 was
smote ;-)

Initial architecture was written in a very accessible form, alas could have
benefited from more rigour. Trade-off taken was to move fast with folks who
were largely mind-melted based on long experience in networking & multicast
problems and framework which was malleable rather than formalize things
into a strict corset readable for less experienced folks. The rigour would
benefit us now IMO, especially since lots of work fleshed the details out
and newest discussions show that lots of lessons that old-hands in
multicast learned are not necessarily obvious. Things like "how do you
route underlay?" which led to BAR/IPA discussions or "can you run BIER
without an IGP" which led to lots of yang discussions to allow for
controller only deployments or even BIER-TE which basically uses BIER to
interpret the bitmask completely differently should be codified in 8279bis
IMO.

-- tony

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:12 PM Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <
hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg
>
>
>
> Just to ensure is the final goal to update 8279 to include bier forwarding
> with all BIER encapsulation including MPLS, non-MPLS and IPv6 encap? And/Or
> is it to include bier forwarding over tunnels including mpls, ipv6, for FRR
> etc… ?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hooman
>
>
>
> *From:* BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Greg Shepherd
> *Sent:* Monday, June 14, 2021 9:47 AM
> *To:* zhang.zheng <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>
> *Cc:* BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC
>
>
>
> Thank you, Sandy!
>
>
>
> Anyone else willing to help?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
> (Chairs)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 6:19 AM <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>
> Hi Gerg, Tony,
> May I volunteer for the work to help making the description more detailed?
> Thank you very much!
> Best regards,
> Sandy
>
> 原始邮件
>
> *发件人**:*gjshep<gjshep@gmail.com>
>
> *收件人**:*bier<bier@ietf.org>;
>
> *日期**:*2021-06-12 21:05:49
>
> *主**题**:[Bier] RFC8279: Request for authors to update RFC*
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
> A big "thank you" to all WG members who have worked so hard to get BIER to
> where it is today. And to no surprise, our work is not done. The following
> bullet points are from the Chairs' technical summary previously sent to the
> list:
>
>
>
> • BIER encoding is specified in RFC8296
>
> • Alia Atlas: “IANA code-points don’t change.  This is the reason why BIER
> began as experimental - narrow
>
>         point in hourglass”
>
> • The encoding at the “narrow point of the hourglass” – the forwarding
> plane –  is the foundation from which
>
>         the rest of the architecture grows.
>
> • This was the position of the IESG and the BIER WG ADs at the time of the
> original WG Experimental Charter.
>
> • This is admittedly historic/institutional knowledge of those involved in
> the WG from the beginning. But it is also
>
>         a core tenet of the layered and scalable architecture of the
> Internet and was erroneously assumed as
>
>         well-understood by the original WG contributors. The WG needs to
> update the BIER architecture to make this
>
>         responsibility clear for all future contributors.
>
>
>
> RFC8279 began as a draft at the very beginning of the WG. It has since
> been made clear that the authors at that time had assumed the importance of
> the forwarding plane as the foundation of architecture was well understood
> by the community at large. That no longer seems to be the case.
> Additionally, the draft of RFC8279 began before the draft of RFC8296 was
> complete, and even before the assignment of the IEEE BIER ethertype.
>
>
>
> This is a call for volunteers to update RFC8279 to better define BIER at
> the forwarding plane, and clarify how IETF-standard encapsulation
> mechanisms can be used to transit BIER packets, while preserving the core
> tenet of a layered and scalable architecture of the Internet.
>
>
>
> If you would like to tackle this update, please reply to this thread.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
> (Chairs)
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>