Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt
"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com> Tue, 09 August 2022 04:58 UTC
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt
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Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 04:57:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt
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Huaimo - Thanx for the quick response. Please see inline. From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com> Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 7:26 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; bier@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt Hi Les, Thank you very much for your valuable comments and suggestions. My responses are inline below with [HC3]. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 1:02 PM To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org> <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>> Subject: RE: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt Huaimo - In order to support a variable length bit field, you will need to change the format of the sub-TLV. So, while you may not need to support more larger scale today, you do not want to standardize a format that will have to be changed. I think you need to revise the format now. And if you are advertising a bit string, this could become quite large. RFC 8296 defines support for up to 4K bits - which would require 512 bytes - not feasible in IS-IS in a 255 byte TLV. I suggest you advertise this as a 0-based bit number. This means that a 16 bit field (2 octets) is sufficient to cover Bits 0-65535. [HC3]: The BitPosition field of 16 bits (2 octets) is to store a Bit Position (or Bit Number) assigned to a link. The maximum Bit Position (or Bit Number) is the maximum number of links in a network if one Bit Position is assigned to two ends of a link. For a very large network, its total number of links may be greater than 65535. The BitPosition field of 3 octets in maximum is enough. [LES:] OK. But I don't understand how you are going to manage assignment of unique values network-wide. Could you explain? I thought this number was scoped by the node - just had to be unique for the set of links associated with a single node - In which case 64K seems more than adequate. ?? I also question why you need to include the DisEndBitPosition. For this to be correct, it needs to match the value locally assigned on the DIS - which means it is safer to retrieve the value from the corresponding advertisement by the DIS itself. Otherwise, the non-DIS nodes would have to update their advertisements whenever they see a change in what is advertised by the DIS. This is not desirable. [HC3]: I will remove this field accordingly. [LES:] Thanx - glad we are in agreement. So the sub-TLV format becomes: Type: 1 octet Length: 1 octet sub-domain-id: 1 octet BAR: 1 octet IPA: 1 octet BitNumber : 2-octets Specifies the local bit position (0 based) assigned to this link/neighbor [HC3]: BitNumber field is extended as follows: the first bit (from left to right) is used as a flag named E flag. When E = 0, the BitNumber field is 2 octets (i.e., 16 bits), the last 15 bits stores a Bit Position. When E = 1, the BitNumber field is 3 octets (i.e., 24 bits), the last 23 bits stores a Bit Position. [LES:] If we really need variable length, I suggest adding 1 octet "length of bitnumber" prior to the BitNumber field itself. Les Les From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 8:04 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt Hi Les, Thanks much for your question. My answer is inline below with [HC2]. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 9:58 AM To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org> <bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org>> Subject: RE: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt Huaimo - Thanx for addressing my comments so quickly. Changes look fine - but I do have one question. You eliminated the text: > "Note that if each of BitPosition > and DrEndBitPosition uses more than 2 octets, we use 4 or more octets > for each of them." Does this mean you have no need to ever support more than 16 bits in these fields?? [HC2]: It should be ok for now. For scalability, there is a need for supporting more than 16 bits in these fields. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen > Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 7:59 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; > bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > Hi Les, > > Thank you very much for your valuable comments. > I have addressed them in the updated draft (uploaded). > My responses are also inline below with [HC]. > > Best Regards, > Huaimo > -----Original Message----- > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 4:59 PM > To: bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > Some pedantic comments on this draft: > > For the new BIER-TE sub-TLV: > > 1)The relevant registry has been renamed to be "IS-IS Sub-TLVs for TLVs > Advertising Neighbor Information". Please use this new name. > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > w.iana.org%2Fassignments%2Fisis-tlv-codepoints%2Fisis-tlv- > codepoints.xhtml%23isis-tlv-codepoints-advertising-neighbor- > information&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5b > bd38c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc% > 7C1%7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi > MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300 > 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ybC6zOJkG1sRe%2FQosV23MElysXHkg7jnHS70N > %2Bf7bpE%3D&reserved=0 > [HC]: I have renamed it as you suggested. > > 2)Please do NOT insert padding to keep content aligned on a 4 byte > boundary. This may be useful for OSPF, but it is not for IS-IS as TLVs are NOT > aligned inside an LSP. All you are doing is wasting space - which is precious in > IS-IS given the limited LSP space. > [HC]: Removed padding. > > 3)You say in Section 2: > > "Note that if each of BitPosition > and DrEndBitPosition uses more than 2 octets, we use 4 or more octets > for each of them." > > I do not see how the receiver of the sub-TLV could tell whether the 2 octet or > 4 octet encoding was sent as you have nothing that specifies the length of > these fields. > You can't use the total length of the sub-TLV as it could include optional sub- > sub-TLVs. > > ?? > [HC]: Deleted the quoted text. > > 4)In IANA section, I do not know why you specified "N" for TLVs 23 and 223. > While RFC 5311 (which defines these TLVs) is not popular, if there was an > implementation, I see no reason why it should be invalid to send the BIER-TE > info in these TLVs. > [HC]: Changed "n" to "y" for TLVs 23 and 223. > > Thanx. > > Les > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> > > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 12:13 PM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> > > Cc: bier@ietf.org<mailto:bier@ietf.org> > > Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG of the > IETF. > > > > Title : IS-IS Extensions for BIER-TE > > Authors : Huaimo Chen > > Mike McBride > > Aijun Wang > > Gyan S. Mishra > > Yanhe Fan > > Lei Liu > > Xufeng Liu > > Filename : draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt > > Pages : 7 > > Date : 2022-07-29 > > > > Abstract: > > This document describes IS-IS extensions for distributing > > BitPositions configured on the links in "Bit Index Explicit > > Replication Traffic Engineering" (BIER-TE) domain. > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-bier-te- > isis%2F&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38 > c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1 > %7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC > 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000% > 7C%7C%7C&sdata=99ojCa2m%2BTeMk0OfxeifsmVrhvNaK7jQJp0fu0syR > N8%3D&reserved=0 > > > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-bier-te-isis- > 01&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256 > 024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0 > %7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C > %7C&sdata=%2F8qaH0ZvQBAfGM4WIre0jpcI6As7wjXjdqbxOfdGHxo%3 > D&reserved=0 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > w.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-bier-te-isis- > 01&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256 > 024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0 > %7C637947251926210034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C > %7C&sdata=L77o0dGWGuSwL9vSm1Durc56Fl5zONoDq%2F8ij12v9lc%3D > &reserved=0 > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BIER mailing list > > BIER@ietf.org<mailto:BIER@ietf.org> > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > w.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbier&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.c > hen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff > 2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnkno > wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=em5K2lvVvXwkSl > ye1egSX%2BgtdfeqDArSsAycQJTPArI%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org<mailto:BIER@ietf.org> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww > w.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbier&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.c > hen%40futurewei.com%7C5bbd38c256024261ea5608da71a546c0%7C0fee8ff > 2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637947251926210034%7CUnkno > wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=em5K2lvVvXwkSl > ye1egSX%2BgtdfeqDArSsAycQJTPArI%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > BIER mailing list > BIER@ietf.org<mailto:BIER@ietf.org> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbier&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C95a42958ed4c41fff26d08da75584150%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637951319188884952%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=P0k112aaXc4zEAnMqv70xk73K2vaqz2LobVCFQyuei0%3D&reserved=0<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbier&data=05%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C135682cd35664cf2c57d08da795fd2ad%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637955749734314830%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=j47CdsamUTklY0IonidEfzbfrkh0V0MIEI6jdrBh6cE%3D&reserved=0>
- [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… zhang.zheng
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… zhang.zheng
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-te-isis-01… Toerless Eckert