Re: [Bimi] MUA Evaluation of BIMI

Ken O'Driscoll <ken@wemonitoremail.com> Mon, 14 March 2022 16:27 UTC

Return-Path: <ken@wemonitoremail.com>
X-Original-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2513A0A36 for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.11
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=wemonitoremail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9EMys7pitsZw for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db8eur05on2071a.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:7e1a::71a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A82C33A09FA for <bimi@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nvXyIELkHp2DeaM96mCoDxsFD8ycm1kajZf38++4jFHnPZNq3ngFX2wwdiKKIYqHOKU8qeRqaacrfJcwX58c5j2y9nItd5/J2Iihvnq7+J/TcO5XaQwkpFucgSIwNn0jPMMdAg7USxThPcQCz4K8W96J0G6gbwTLpzkWUI/OqFoCcqbmVBMPmB57yNuwEZblzQi6RoVRiUoHFPv8GT8pK4aBKstoHq3GbCwT7EaZ7+O5Bs7J6a31BJwrPd+oOrayUwXsE2flqfIsa9AxqSZEMK5zbWQFyaI+hjvHU2RZziS+ZCUK69+yuB8DgKULQlPPKUK5+YYHb3SzHWfuxIpMRA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=A6y79o1O9B0yzd/ITba3k4kBL8Ny01qRO69LvtBMdUQ=; b=Qzll9f4n3ROIVIaW6jOiHazUuWJ79z+ojneP9jSXExtVeP7Q1MlP+qL++f3QFjwjBFxJuI53p1EkrNDPqrlTWk6fhsOySlKrEUhYZ9nT9TMbH5GKO2GFt2uJmpyEwasEz9LmY9o9MVvd4L/w5Z6PGrzrIODH6fOcbWo2U/+yKsu0D3LGAkcTWKzt9zKZ3+GFkkxLb3wylO9qMAKL2a0V2VNF+UL1goOxp6TEC2+NrVzbzpQamW2gaYLmu4hOgpzqs6Fx+sz3c/pKJrWXFIZ+C4zLxw6apRnnv7vRvFBEx5lXSjriqpRQj0K/35tXWOYwR2iaNOsyes34mNYs5Wer7g==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wemonitoremail.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=wemonitoremail.com; dkim=pass header.d=wemonitoremail.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wemonitoremail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=A6y79o1O9B0yzd/ITba3k4kBL8Ny01qRO69LvtBMdUQ=; b=ILl7KtRDPCKwBcu2SGQLv9Mb69l/3SOprl/wFtfbrdZggBCaEfWy4pjJdhkdOMIZv3iK+7M4MD94FJt4eVAl0t3p8ejdsXn/bF26dKVdJwn/fSah75NvCoIy3zB8f1QtVDZo0NA935o+MSzNK8X4UIZehQi+24jgsabE9LecNzQNuhczdACfufHD+spGwVVQL8Dszcy43YQHGe3uSWMWAIk7bTR882gOyiMGLG297LwlldZob4R0qpxG450cL/FSc8wd3En1i7DZI0g4rXNn5musU2uKVawif8KKDhmuQsulLY8mkrOvBwa1bQ6wv/GcCh/WnrdKxEu8QWywxJvUHA==
Received: from VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:800:19a::9) by GV1PR01MB8850.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:150:2d::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5061.25; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:27:43 +0000
Received: from VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::a049:e870:2872:dbd3]) by VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::a049:e870:2872:dbd3%7]) with mapi id 15.20.5061.028; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:27:42 +0000
From: Ken O'Driscoll <ken@wemonitoremail.com>
To: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, Trent Adams <tadams@proofpoint.com>
CC: "bimi@ietf.org" <bimi@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bimi] MUA Evaluation of BIMI
Thread-Index: AQHYNakS7cBGBKKcikGTe1q57Bj1Vqy/BUnggAAFwoCAAAUX0A==
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:27:42 +0000
Message-ID: <VI1PR01MB70536AF84304760C18708416C70F9@VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <7639D8E5-B8CA-48E6-B6F3-63BA091C3AC5@contoso.com> <VI1PR01MB7053B6AF625A5FFB2222F795C70F9@VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> <82f4775e-faab-b081-9502-523bd056e9e3@dcrocker.net>
In-Reply-To: <82f4775e-faab-b081-9502-523bd056e9e3@dcrocker.net>
Accept-Language: en-IE, en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=wemonitoremail.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1af40327-e41c-4a89-9693-08da05d790a1
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: GV1PR01MB8850:EE_
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <GV1PR01MB885004E6547148BF634F73D3C70F9@GV1PR01MB8850.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(39830400003)(376002)(366004)(346002)(396003)(136003)(55016003)(5660300002)(9686003)(33656002)(2906002)(4744005)(83380400001)(122000001)(8936002)(66446008)(38070700005)(66476007)(4326008)(64756008)(66556008)(26005)(76116006)(186003)(8676002)(38100700002)(66946007)(53546011)(52536014)(71200400001)(6506007)(7696005)(86362001)(316002)(110136005)(508600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: wemonitoremail.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1af40327-e41c-4a89-9693-08da05d790a1
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Mar 2022 16:27:42.8181 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: a2b1d6fe-fc8b-4b7c-b9f1-d7b1ab3d23b3
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: IyO/zmVGcG3EuJVH4JKE2Nakb5Db4x29/qc804aPuRQh7uDQpRUuji8PSbEbzDhz7mDbYx2wnKQPgUbdQbNyKg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: GV1PR01MB8850
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bimi/B0IxvJDCpben00oN-UC9bOisEn0>
Subject: Re: [Bimi] MUA Evaluation of BIMI
X-BeenThere: bimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Brand Indicators for Message Identification <bimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:bimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:27:55 -0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
> Sent: Monday 14 March 2022 15:50
> To: Ken O'Driscoll <ken@wemonitoremail.com>; Trent Adams
> <tadams@proofpoint.com>
> Cc: bimi@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Bimi] MUA Evaluation of BIMI
>
[...snip...]
> 
> In other words, as an end-to-end service, BIMI really should NOT simply
> defer the question of MTA/MDA/MUA interaction as trust as something left
> to "the user of the MUA to determine".
> 

I completely agree and didn't intend to appear to advocate for a free for all.

If people begin to see value in supporting BIMI at the MUA level, then they will do so with or without the endorsement of the specification. However, if the spec. clearly articulates implementation considerations and risks, then it can only be a good thing.

In particular, the vendors of third-party webmail software that many ISPs white label, would likely benefit from clear published guidance instead of trying to guess best practice.

Ken.