Re: [Bimi] Alternate proposal

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Thu, 21 July 2022 20:29 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B59EC15A726 for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 13:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FWF78oZLzSOJ for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 13:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03FD8C15A724 for <bimi@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E1081B84 for <bimi@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:29:19 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from gcp-us-central1-a-smtpout1.hostinger.io (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: hostingeremail) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id F33C781679 for <bimi@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:29:18 +0000 (UTC)
ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1658435359; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=gjUWZUcYo9PlgLRQ/zUNB9n4Z9y0BsGb+Ve0AiI/6jxxOJXi4lO/KEyejHtJ7h2tlUHY25 /cLnKYN3Su5NmS+SGABE2N/y5Q/o9n/txEXU92OwJfwNcqleG4vroux8J9ZOIAdiUPcjt0 ifKB0GJyVS918qByHj+/zqt1t5DnshxxDoWCD04fYDodE0bNI7aosmoQ06fU/I8uwC+IZj EK62L+1PSkInBw2nalPeqh/FjqiRW5ux5K1AfRe6nZyMDH+CKFArCZTWI33Pu+YKUkvwHJ lgPn9rDj9S5TncCyPYuaSFOO1TbjDAaBmOovE23C9fHWYlkv96YclQwaixbhpg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1658435359; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=EDr5taL+YTqp9BuMEIXRpjlzNgkm76XBDpKd5W6fvIU=; b=c3IdHXY62aOfxUc9SHN9+kg/duYggsZqBVuYoInxalE/CB07g4HkIobmpKEQv5/RCPTMBF n4CsPikHb7K+PRDjuDaoHPEiW+xaQp17gU3RO+bN4nO5inofk9lqnfgiQ0zSLP81QujQ4x v4DCFBE634htVcdcARaSe5QNWP+VvGEBtQbKlW6qFaEkKzNQldcP7g3iOGzdkFuSlEnbF1 aVbQQV4Pt4/ugU6hl7EMBPhwtzwjckdrGkBo3iGeJltgr/+VzLdJ9nRFtWYXYBHhEMgZ5+ 7n9xvyF6CPwsE/kLVk080V8shufFblsGq9eW12z776ZzpdzMHNarLYvno7fGng==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-689699966c-vshsd; auth=pass smtp.auth=hostingeremail smtp.mailfrom=dhc@dcrocker.net
X-Sender-Id: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: hostingeremail|x-authsender|dhc@dcrocker.net
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: hostingeremail
X-Shoe-Squirrel: 28106bf752b203f2_1658435359340_898740661
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1658435359339:1506781291
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1658435359339
Received: from gcp-us-central1-a-smtpout1.hostinger.io (gcp-us-central1-a-smtpout1.hostinger.io [35.184.15.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) by 100.115.45.23 (trex/6.7.1); Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:29:19 +0000
Received: from [192.168.0.104] (c-73-170-122-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.170.122.71]) (Authenticated sender: dhc@dcrocker.net) by smtp.hostinger.com (smtp.hostinger.com) with ESMTPSA id 4Lpkgc00Jbz2chRr; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dcrocker.net; s=hostingermail-a; t=1658435358; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=EDr5taL+YTqp9BuMEIXRpjlzNgkm76XBDpKd5W6fvIU=; b=dEZ0OlxO63Q8kwJf8IZpvL2IADiANjv27siGfQTM/6Jdy63BnTNfkTlqA8tkLqJL14Mu2w nlNwWYKV6CCUDhWx83ye5WOiWQPZBIM1/pgiP41ewPIIwNBRqVT2Mo3ysQJMeKk8jXuZRl Yvx4xzgGdACdvTwGqS6swMyIP8TyWS+bTQYUydZ0bwqY0xg62NCPBKcjnuhdL8eowBBH+l xltXFq34GIZIewYkH2nCbXWBhv2VJzmlzN6SDamaVutsQVbrhCpoyOyLwpj1hzyLZ8PwWQ PmrQvXh3OE5JfuqU8ugM7r01u7OrO2+maQvNhc1+q2CEi9BXHtfjFQAVHlPITA==
Message-ID: <9ecfc849-8ed5-6d4a-1165-b1b1297ec7d1@dcrocker.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 13:29:14 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
Content-Language: en-US
To: Ken O'Driscoll <ken@wemonitoremail.com>
Cc: "bimi@ietf.org" <bimi@ietf.org>
References: <3E050BDC62D7946860C5E1E6@PSB> <CAHej_8nHgAVWNLDk11j4gY+KxY+e=gcAAzJHryWXELQoY+65Ww@mail.gmail.com> <E5ADBB85022B6D97DDC8AE7C@PSB> <083ADECC-EFC8-4AD1-9DA0-6AAF08342330@proofpoint.com> <VI1PR01MB7053ED7C0857415D1A0A0F71C7919@VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR01MB7053ED7C0857415D1A0A0F71C7919@VI1PR01MB7053.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bimi/cqkxCjiJzTD8ySwwK51AArk9M1I>
Subject: Re: [Bimi] Alternate proposal
X-BeenThere: bimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Brand Indicators for Message Identification <bimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:bimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:29:28 -0000

On 7/21/2022 12:29 PM, Ken O'Driscoll wrote:
> So, integrating BIMI with a PKI or web-of-trust seems like an idea at 
> least worth discussing.

 From the start of the Bimi effort, a fundamental issue has been the 
nature of the trust model and how to make it work at scale -- that is, 
across country and organization boundaries and across the globe.  For 
usage of marks, in the absence of an international mechanism for 
authorizing them and resolving disputes about them

It's not obvious to me how the mechanisms you have cited resolve the 
hard parts of that issue.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net