Re: [Bimi] [rfc-i] SVG P/S Feedback

"Brotman, Alex" <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com> Mon, 31 August 2020 14:29 UTC

Return-Path: <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com>
X-Original-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0483A13F0 for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:29:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com header.b=sgWVTw5T; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com header.b=VIpm6f3O; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=comcastcorp.onmicrosoft.com header.b=J2LpTPXl
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id efub-QaZ4hVe for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:29:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14F4E3A13EA for <bimi@ietf.org>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0184891.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 07VEORDN005384 for <bimi@ietf.org>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:28:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=XXJXQ6KVABnsCHujGNkcQjvN6g5iq9pcgg+wOvrn+Ho=; b=sgWVTw5Tpa4kJRCTLs9EBmJ1kXgvmZjHc3OVcVMIsLrjwrpO/sd7Oznhog5PEjqQ/ZAo kK/iYmA+6vau9ZqT2xf08KPOApOcG4WF6vbRl9a/4+4ZzCIT/0cAYn5eTGhwtSat0fso LFOHVjoq6zBEEiT2Jp1P8oemb8HwC4W4+Xoo+eHcFpmWCbmlfcXsjNzTen9L6GEXcIGB VciQ+FoUdI6msXqaTe/dQF2NezaOcENGFy3Cxy8OPveb3s40VPfkH0qRV9/QWtHsVZb4 70LytoXhqP0zrH+aoVVYapFhcCiw7+ASjRLGht28jmG7c6ENgWRApHxGTll3BhIJaw8F Pg==
Received: from copdcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (copdcmhout02.cable.comcast.com [96.114.158.212]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 337ksf0p90-296 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for <bimi@ietf.org>; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:28:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=comcast.com; s=20190412; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@comcast.com; t=1598884137; x=2462797737; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=XXJXQ6KVABnsCHujGNkcQjvN6g5iq9pcgg+wOvrn+Ho=; b=VIpm6f3O3zNhwTpO++Eaq+xMsSPbBdZXUdP3OJo69a+TkxZePtq6ARynbYi8S+FL 6W31PtWgwlMzOVrSnrn3w0TEtilwz4V70r+OcWZr2chjobPY4tYpXuU3kktsVZgL Ukd/ofEgqkBrHYzrT4oBwLTg9Lu1LfzoKTnfm5AXRTcQWofyjOlUHR+hjVUE+nfv TL9BYb0Rps4TF8C0MvVmyM8ETop9W5jgRIy8Lg7KPqWQoV7bUGCm9gkVUowCdMr0 6T86jV/qoeEYPGt3Le+PgrezDg33PIn7Kj2MQTkaaqt9BX0IhfayMYzxGGBAv/E+ mX8Fmurcq+8ex+KQodZCnw==;
X-AuditID: 60729ed4-a31ff70000003048-92-5f4d0929a51c
Received: from COPDCEX50.cable.comcast.com (copdcmhoutvip.cable.comcast.com [96.114.156.147]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by copdcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id 73.5B.12360.9290D4F5; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:28:57 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from COPDCEX49.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.148) by COPDCEX50.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:28:57 -0600
Received: from COPDCEXEDGE01.cable.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) by COPDCEX49.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:28:57 -0600
Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.59.175) by webmail.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:28:30 -0400
Received: from MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:193::31) by BL0PR11MB3313.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:60::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3326.24; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:28:29 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ad13:1343:ce8c:d2f]) by MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ad13:1343:ce8c:d2f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3326.025; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:28:29 +0000
From: "Brotman, Alex" <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com>
To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
CC: "BIMI (IETF) (bimi@ietf.org)" <bimi@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rfc-i] SVG P/S Feedback
Thread-Index: AQHWfVYn55/LZSJDuUOxfg4Gw3jxXKlSSe7Q
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:28:29 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR11MB43512B9A8A301F5B8F63BE89F7510@MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <04985C8C-F189-4B3F-8535-7B65BD56EEB1@adobe.com>
In-Reply-To: <04985C8C-F189-4B3F-8535-7B65BD56EEB1@adobe.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: adobe.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;adobe.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=comcast.com;
x-originating-ip: [2601:43:101:380:9152:e1fd:ffc1:91e3]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ee7d13fa-bfa6-4c4a-8bda-08d84dba2175
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3313:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR11MB331377BBB69AD6B5B13B04D3F7510@BL0PR11MB3313.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: GkoNEW+py620l0Gx4GCMnv73aSYGM7GA+yXDEsQurPVSD8+esfADzw8Y2okNQ2dOkkKXclTb+JR5/aDAoQbXWE57RCtCrDY/2/LnO7ccJd04fSvQ0XqvhbTy6uOWBbyJ3878wWk7ovwfpAUvC3r4MJwP1FheUNQPX0oHfgLMEKDVyfaCsBalV+wqjscbcOR/X2ugM6zVhjTaDAqcyHahsDCLyKMfwTCq10TojLSmxqaEcI96WZELAyV5TTLj2u2T4d2DPzTuqPuzxDbXar3q2GJWIj1LolbsmQ2tiBZc9znzx7R5FnNETZxxoH+2ZEtiqQx6AzDL/oMMV2ovI/zjF8Hp0DD6HCrtd4IDXW/c78YahKxHyA4tKKNgnZxYloRmQ7Itg2zP+r3/W2jfHZ93bA==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(376002)(396003)(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(33656002)(52536014)(296002)(66476007)(66946007)(64756008)(66446008)(66556008)(53546011)(6506007)(76116006)(86362001)(45080400002)(186003)(7696005)(4326008)(2906002)(8676002)(110136005)(9686003)(5660300002)(8936002)(966005)(316002)(478600001)(55016002)(71200400001)(83380400001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Gx8yNM7KdbG9A4ibLEu/mTO5FVK1Sg/SLb9ziIagiPgjo3WsCsuUoK6N9Kmsav9ZkMgR/TfkE864l2IiVYzRS3mA9eBs60iAzMKyMyhxxr10T1N6+mWyuRxqqFj+VLdVAVlvzfqYN6SrddPBNqIlYNFdbQp/JbzkgVcd5CpGdSXtEOP+dlOTHPI4Md1pylquEnJCZAHuN8isw31eP1e7ZO2EAfSIuT/NX4n9HCxYR8tKgMKnoU9v3k3SNj/ehbjjvLBpeBnVA+IW++Px2F1aswIK33Kuw4Vxt251T85o/arDF7IfLocpi5Si3uayAU8tgxfq4eqixIKp81wkP0gIRQ==
arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IkAwuVBBCw128JRplMwouTfVQ7goF1nkUQzHlufsKnA=; b=Z9oi9vk9BjmFuqoQSR7mePRMxvpFq7nnByafqwfDpfAgOe/MUjk9qKI58OP5cWLPqECiFCpisU7zOkZ5Fix26Etj8IV7i6ABlHX38WWUI1rh0F46aMqkSteVsG6bfbDgy1FDHd6K4SFRCqOwXdHHqsvNjuBg8QZnM4TLzSVCcw8k8jU9lRKyYCCE9HiWOLO2yixQKzOQncThRwDxN71QAnT01ITVHDhYDuPBN0TDFwW2bCTuGhaJaOTcYlmeTC8fzqMoAy3AdgIVqlVLZMFPyeWd6K9TJiRfLXHmTblWHCl9pdJ35OimlU9sGMoZy4Ey7Hl4qKp8c1uy8NN7DzWvdQ==
arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=comcast.com; arc=none
dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastcorp.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-comcastcorp-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IkAwuVBBCw128JRplMwouTfVQ7goF1nkUQzHlufsKnA=; b=J2LpTPXlatsiNBLM8Vq6vcB6cijB11MPKpY4h8uYJnzWFap5mESPzTJKeT885exnmgeRbQsHE02nG8PWe369hjaA87GnssvOzYAAyzUKF+UG6Z97ikR/PXFVMX7UzceZiWFKnTuWNxRVCFwGpKfNh9l3D0MELdaRZxE20XHP60U=
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: ee7d13fa-bfa6-4c4a-8bda-08d84dba2175
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2020 14:28:29.2413 (UTC)
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: CoN84yXJ/laKBhCd4FRrE/rstlKQkpnZN9cC11qkfat+MmnyPRcZyoQlWszm63t8lp2NMFddFZg6bXt4jix8ThvbF6ZMzKfX2wIToX+NCxw=
x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: BL0PR11MB3313
x-originatororg: comcast.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Forward
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42JJKJozWVeT0zfeYOs5M4vmc/sZLU6vVLA4 eLyBzYHZY9rPHmaPJUt+Mnk0tB1jDWCO4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpYcHs6U8E+5YoV67YwNTCe UOpi5OSQEDCRWHTrJXsXIxeHkMBhJokTTatZIZxDjBK3en6zQDh3GCVWPNvABuGcZJT4tmsd lLOESeLgoQ+MEM4DRokLXz+xg0xmEzCQeHXpIAuILSKQKbF//UWwOLOAocTemf/A4sICqhIX F8+HqlGTmLrrO5DNAWQbSaxrlQIJswCVXDm6ignE5hWIkViz/R0jiC0kYCNx7MwjsDingK3E 5wmPweKMAmIS30+tYYJYJS5x68l8JohHBSSW7DnPDGGLSrx8/A/sT0aBHkaJ/gl/2CES5hIP 9+xmgbBlJS7N72aEsH0lXh5eDzVIS2LftNlQdrbEtGXrWSFsNYnPT69ALZCTWNX7EGqOjMSD G9vBoSUhsJtZYlJzLzuE85dZounwd8YJjCazkFw7CxgAzAKaEut36UOEFSWmdD9knwUOAEGJ kzOfsCxgZFnFyGdppmdoaKJnaGqhZ2RotIkRnD7mXdnBeHm6xyFGAQ5GJR5erf8+8UKsiWXF lbnA+ORgVhLhPbDLO16INyWxsiq1KD++qDQntfgQozQHi5I4b2zs2TghgfTEktTs1NSC1CKY LBMHp1QDIxfDgSCTxSVzfwowa2/YHOFp3HHvT9JHoebc64uepItu9l/jvWy7I8O9Ds7tHw2d AwTj52RO17p2JzHOMrUiqDdU7sm6te177BUyf9947HehbN736LcSi59vlC3vnXrWZH0wl3TH tXWCOxl1Dzx+Uc3tHMMTm+u0/vPmj1cyOeYuiv/u1F1QrsRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAGaxwuYbAwAA
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-08-31_06:2020-08-31, 2020-08-31 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bimi/sfvUzQdT32Nsha81-RSXu9RChGg>
Subject: Re: [Bimi] [rfc-i] SVG P/S Feedback
X-BeenThere: bimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Brand Indicators for Message Identification <bimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:bimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:29:02 -0000

Leonard,

Ah, that's very interesting indeed.  It does look like a similar set of goals, though I need to read the document a bit more to see how they may diverge, as well as discuss with other folks on the BIMI group.  If you know, could you comment on how complete this spec might be?

--
Alex Brotman
Sr. Engineer, Anti-Abuse & Messaging Policy
Comcast

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 12:13 PM
> To: Brotman, Alex <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com>; rfc-interest@rfc-
> editor.org
> Cc: BIMI (IETF) (bimi@ietf.org) <bimi@ietf.org>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [rfc-i] SVG P/S Feedback
>
> The SVG working group has been working on a similar project for a while now
> called SVG Native
> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://svgwg.org/specs/svg-
> native/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TneMAZKtm3W11WFNWERlDUklHL8zhe6AF2kSl3F
> wtHl3FnDbgcLikCfUrA2pP_-tffQA$ ).  Seems like it would be better for you to
> leverage that work - including any contributions you believe are necessary -
> rather than create another (very similar) document.
>
> Leonard
>
> On 8/28/20, 8:57 AM, "rfc-interest on behalf of Brotman, Alex" <rfc-interest-
> bounces@rfc-editor.org on behalf of Alex_Brotman@comcast.com> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>
>     [Apologies for the cross-posting]
>
>     As part of a separate project, we wanted to create a smaller SVG profile[1].
> It is based on SVG Tiny 1.2, with several components removed.  The goal is to
> try to keep the document self-contained, remove animations, and generally
> more portable and secure (hence P/S).  Personally, I've been curious if we
> should be trying to create a new baseProfile as we've specified, given that it
> may behoove a developer to only target this subset of Tiny features,
> reducing footprint and attack surface.  We also welcome feedback about the
> text and font elements that we've permitted in the draft, and their security
> implications.
>
>     We thank you for any advice or feedback you can provide.
>
>     [1]
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.co
> m/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-svg-tiny-ps-
> abrotman*2F&amp;data=02*7C01*7Clrosenth*40adobe.com*7C1e0e0a4500
> 844cfd94d308d84b51ed91*7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1*7C0*7C1
> *7C637342162549841131&amp;sdata=VMyuvgeI4f*2F5bNPSsdNq0kVaY1VDF
> AAk4N3OpE*2BELII*3D&amp;reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!CQl3m
> cHX2A!TneMAZKtm3W11WFNWERlDUklHL8zhe6AF2kSl3FwtHl3FnDbgcLikCfU
> rA2pP1DdU8Dw$
>
>     --
>     Alex Brotman
>     Sr. Engineer, Anti-Abuse & Messaging Policy
>     Comcast
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     rfc-interest mailing list
>     rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.co
> m/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.rfc-editor.org*2Fmailman*2Flistinfo*2Frfc-
> interest&amp;data=02*7C01*7Clrosenth*40adobe.com*7C1e0e0a4500844cf
> d94d308d84b51ed91*7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1*7C0*7C1*7C6
> 37342162549841131&amp;sdata=HfGQxw5Aj*2FbXXICoJLnSLUqdHboqFUX9F
> oFc499r8gs*3D&amp;reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!CQl3mcHX2A!T
> neMAZKtm3W11WFNWERlDUklHL8zhe6AF2kSl3FwtHl3FnDbgcLikCfUrA2pP8f
> D9zSo$