Re: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd-04: (with COMMENT)
"MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com> Wed, 15 February 2017 13:40 UTC
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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd-04: (with COMMENT)
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Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:39:32 +0000
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Cc: Scott Bradner <sobradner@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd@ietf.org>, "bmwg-chairs@ietf.org" <bmwg-chairs@ietf.org>, "Kevin Dubray (kdubray@juniper.net)" <kdubray@juniper.net>, "bmwg@ietf.org" <bmwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd-04: (with COMMENT)
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Farrell [mailto:stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie] > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:08 AM > To: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL); The IESG > Cc: draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd@ietf.org; bmwg-chairs@ietf.org; > bmwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bmwg- > ipv6-nd-04: (with COMMENT) > > > Hi Al, > > On 15/02/17 03:25, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: bmwg [mailto:bmwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Farrell > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:45 PM > >> To: The IESG > >> Cc: draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd@ietf.org; bmwg-chairs@ietf.org; MORTON, > >> ALFRED C (AL); bmwg@ietf.org > >> Subject: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-bmwg- > ipv6- > >> nd-04: (with COMMENT) > >> > >> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > >> draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd-04: No Objection > >> > > ... > >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bmwg-ipv6-nd/ > >> > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >> COMMENT: > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >> > >> > >> Just an idle thought... Given what we've learned about tests, > >> car manufs and diesel engines recently, I wonder if it'd be a > >> good idea for the security considerations sections of this > >> kind of RFC to consider how a DUT implementer might cheat? > >> In this case, I guess there could be a scenario where the > >> "clear the NC" operation is not really done (for a short > >> time, after a test pattern has been observed recently) so > >> that the DUT appears to perform better during tests. I'd > >> guess that some of the folks designing these tests thought > >> about some of that, but it might be no harm to start writing > >> that down as well. (Note this really is just a suggestion, > >> I'm not complaining at all. OTOH, while it'd be a bit of > >> work, it might be fun of a kind:-) > >> > >> > > [ACM] > > Long before the emission test scandals, we had discussions on > > manipulation of measurements in the context of the LMAP BoF. > > Henning Schulzrinne wisely pointed-out that there are > > engineering problems, and then there are lawyer problems. > > > > We subsequently wrote the LMAP charter to say: > > "Protection against the intentional or malicious insertion > > of inaccuracies into the overall system or measurement > > process (sometimes known as "gaming the system") is > > outside the scope of work." > > > > thankfully participating in the I*E*TF > > and leaving lawyer problems to the lawyers, > > I fully agree that attempting to describe lawyer problems > wouldn't be a good plan. But, there are engineering issues > here that could maybe be usefully described too and it's > only the latter that I was interested in. > > As you say, I do think that folks designing these benchmarks > do consider cheating DUT implementers at least a bit, so > the question is mostly if it's interesting to document > some of that thought. I'd find that interesting and suspect > it might be useful for those implementing or carrying out > tests. > [ACM] Hi Stephen, (disclaimer: this is a pre-coffee reply) This is a topic where I would greatly appreciate to hear from other long-time participants in BMWG, especially Scott Bradner and Kevin Dubray. To me, mentioning this topic in a standard passes more responsibility to the testing organization to check for it, and incites the unscrupulous (catch me if you can). Also, there *are* checks we can perform to see if test conditions are recognized in the DUT, but we can't document those methods in a standard because they will become ineffective (magician's code of secrecy). IMO, this is all better-handled by a code of conduct that the lawyers write and the DUT supplier signs. regards, Al > Cheers, > S. > > > > Al > >
- [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draf… MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
- Re: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [bmwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draf… MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)